NLP MasterCLASS

No, I can't see it.

Don't believe it till I see it.

We're on, Tina.

I can see it, 'cause I've
got us talking in stereo.

So hello, everyone.

Thank you- Hello … for being patient.

I notice a few people have
been posting, "Where are you?

Where are you?"

Um, we … Yeah, "Hi, looking for you."

Yeah, um- Yeah … technical issues, yeah.

The modern day.

Tina's in, Tina's in Florida, and the
system went, "Suspicious activity."

Yeah.

Why are you logging in
from this weird place?

Yeah, yeah, this, uh, this strange place.

So, um, yeah, we've been … Technical
issues behind the scenes, but we made it.

We kept breathing.

We relaxed.

Yeah.

And we just worked through things
logically, so hopefully you guys

are still there and listening
and, uh, we made it, Tina.

I know.

I know.

I was gonna be so excited.

I thought, "I'm gonna be in Florida.

The, the, the people that are
close to us in the UK, I can go,

'Ha, I've got wonderful weather.'"

Are we gonna start off, as always,
by talking about the weather?

Right.

It's either tech- technical
issues or the weather.

Or the weather.

Or

Yeah.

But I, I may have the same weather
that you've been having, but I do have

something that most people don't have.

I have air con.

Yes, okay.

I thought you were gonna say
M- I thought you were gonna say

margaritas, but there we go.

And that's pretty impressive.

Well, I have those too.

I have those too, but I
have those in England.

But I have air con.

I was talking to, um, Joshua, my grandson.

It was like 2:00 in the morning in the UK.

I was out having dinner somewhere,
and he was texting me and

he said, "It's so hot here.

Do you have air con where you are?"

And I went, "Yes, thank you."

So how is it going?

'Cause you're in Orlando with R- Dr.

Bandler, aren't you, and- Yes … John
and Kathleen Laval and the team.

And so what's been going on?

Is- you've done the prac and master
prac, is that right, and- Yeah, so-

… now to trainers' training … we've
done the practitioner and the master

practitioner, and now this is day
three of the trainers' training.

So today everybody's working
on their nested loops.

Oh, fabulous.

I love that.

I remember the first
time I did nested loops.

I went, "Oh, that is so clever."

Yeah.

So everyone's out there presenting
and creating and, and, and creating

their, their anchors and their loops.

Um, and, and it always makes me
smile, 'cause I'm sure we did it

when we first did nested loops,
but like they do their first story.

Shuffle across.

Stop.

Next story.

Yeah, I know.

I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah.

They get to the next story, and
then they stop, and they shuffle.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and by the way, if you haven't
done nested loops and you haven't

got a clue what we're talking about,
go and do your trainers' training.

Yeah.

Now, actually may- maybe we'll
do something about that, you

know, um, 'cause we're looking
at some of the extra lessons.

That would be an interesting one
for a master class, you know.

You know?

Yeah.

For the…

It'd be an interesting one for the group,
to do a, um- Yeah … on nested loops.

Yeah, and also the power of
metaphors as well, because, you know-

Yeah … to me they're, they're,
they're interlinked, you know.

And for those of you that don't
really know, a nested loop is stories

within stories within stories.

It's taking people on a journey.

It's like chaining.

Mm-hmm.

You know, so we start one place, we
segue to somewhere else, take them

somewhere else, somewhere else.

It's like opening up ideas- And then
sometimes going back and closing them off.

I tell you what, I saw
the best demonstration…

Well, no, not the best, 'cause, uh,
I've seen Richard do some amazing stuff.

One of the best demonstrations of nested
loops and anchoring at, um, Carnegie Hall.

Okay.

With Eddie, Eddie Izzard.

Oh, but he's a fabulous
storyteller, isn't he?

He, it, it…

But it, it wasn't just the storytelling.

It was, he told all these stories and set
up anchors that, um, uh, somebody being

impaled by a spear, so it'd be ugh, ugh.

It'd be like this, yeah.

And at the end of the show, he did
a quick summary, boom, boom, boom.

He's like, he closed all the loops-
Wow … by quickly one anchor, two

anchor, three anchor, four anchors, five.

There was about six of them.

I was watching, going, "This
guy must've done an L…

No, no.

No, he hasn't done any LP training.

This is j- he naturally knows that
he's just reminded people of all the

things that he's done- Yeah … with
these very explicit, clear anchors."

It was almost like here to
here- Yeah … to here to here.

I thought it was genius.

Really kind of interesting.

I, I always think it, it, it's hilarious.

When people come and they see Richard, and
they're not quite sure how Richard Bandler

works, and 'cause he, he tells all these
different loops and these different…

He opens all these loops with
these stories, and he doesn't

always complete his stories.

And each story has within it a metaphor.

It's a lesson for the class.

And he even manages, 'cause
now he does the prac and the

master prac at the same time.

So when he's there in the morning,
his, his loops have two levels.

So you got a level for the practitioners
and a level for the master practitioners.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so many people go, "Well,
he's just telling stories."

Mm, no, he's actually embedding
things into your unconscious.

Yeah.

And- And, and that means that some people
aren't aware of the process that goes

behind the nested loops in terms of- Mm

information connecting up like a
gestalt and revisiting, um- Yeah … you

know, creating those neural networks.

So some people go, "How did I know that?

Don't know how I knew that."

Because you didn't talk about explicit.

You told, talked about something,
you know, very vague and like

a story about something else.

How did that make sense, yeah?

So when people don't get it, it's
'cause they, I think they don't

get that perspective of, um, you
know, imparting information and

locking it in- Yeah … as well.

Yeah.

It was…

I mean, even now- Mm … uh, I
mean, my, my daughter Joey, she

did her master prac 20 years ago.

Um, and even now she'll say to me- So
what happened at the end of this story?

Because Richard left a loop open-
Mm … at the end of her training.

Mm.

Um, and I'm going, "Well, I'm not saying."

I mean, the reality is I'm not quite
sure, because he closes the loops

depending as to what he's teaching,
and I can't remember what he was

teaching 20 years ago when he told-
Mm … this particular metaphor.

Uh, and she's still- And,
uh- … "What was it?

You have to tell me."

I, I was on a…

I think it was a master prac where he…

It's the first time I'd ever heard
him explicitly describe how he tracks

his nested loops- Yeah … using l-
uh, lasers and, and/or gates, yeah?

And I remember Jag, the head assistant
at the time, talking to Patrick- Yeah

and they were, they were talking
about nested loops, so I assumed

they'd picked up on what he'd said.

Mm.

And I went, "That's not what he just said.

No, no, that's, that's not what he said.

What he does is he, he fires off
one and sees where the chain goes,

and it lets him know how much of
an understanding someone has."

And I remember Jag going,
"How do you know that?"

I said, "Because he just told us."

Yeah.

Yeah.

It wasn't a story.

He actually told us.

Yeah.

And they missed it,
'cause it was so explicit.

Yeah.

Um, that, that was interesting.

So it sounds like we got
a topic for one of us…

another master class.

Yeah.

Um- I think lots of people would like
that, 'cause lots of people ask about- Mm

nested loops.

Yeah.

You're gonna be doing the next one, yeah?

Because, uh, we know- Yes
… unfortunately Kay, Kay wasn't able

to join us, and hopefully we'll
get her for the one after that.

Um, but you're gonna be doing the
next one, so do you want to tell

everyone a little bit about what
we're gonna be doing for that one?

Yeah.

We're going to be looking
at hypnotic fertility.

So how you can take control of those
thoughts and your mind to improve

your health, but not just your health,
but also to improve your fertility.

It w- oh, it was ages ago now.

So there's a little girl out there that…

well, little girl, she's 20 now,
and her mum contacted me maybe 21

years ago, I can't remember exactly,
because she was desperate to have

a baby, but she'd been told that
medically she would never get pregnant.

She had to have IVF.

She didn't want IVF.

She had all sorts of fears
around the whole process of IVF.

She didn't trust it.

There was all sorts of
stuff going on in her head.

Um, and I had one session with her,
and at the end of that session she

hugged me and said- "Now I know
I can get pregnant, thank you."

And she rang me, I don't know, six weeks
later and told me she was pregnant.

I was so excited.

I didn't know anything about
IVF at that point in time.

And I thought- Mm … wow,
that was really quick.

And she said, "Oh no, I've got
pregnant naturally, and the

doctors just don't understand how."

Now, I've managed to help a few people
do that over the past 20-odd years,

and I'm gonna go through my strategy
of how you help people with they, if

they've got unexplained fertility or
if they're going through some kind

of medical intervention No, fabulous.

I wish I'd known about, because,
you know, my ex and myself, we went

through the IVF process five times,
and that, I'm talking about back in the

day when it was like 20 grand a pop.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And yeah, we spent a lot of money.

Um, and it wasn't until the very
end we realized that she actually

couldn't physically conceive.

You know?

Yeah.

Um, so it was probably not gonna work
anyway, um, which led to adoption.

So for any of you out there that
are, um, looking for ways to be of

service, I think it's a great area
to work in, because it- Yeah, it is.

Yeah … is so stressful for people
involved, you know- And I have-

… because it's so important to them

I mean, this particular person that I'm
talking about now, uh, she was interviewed

by, I think it was the Daily Mail.

Um, so it went into one of the, the,
the red, are they called red tops?

I don't know.

It went into one of the popular
newspapers, daily newspapers in the UK.

And from that interview that she had
with a journalist, I had thousands

of people contact me, and I hadn't
realized what a big problem it was- Mm

up until that point in time.

Um, and I f- I think for about three
years, 90% of my business was just helping

people with fertility, and I have a photo
album at home full of baby pictures.

That's amazing.

Where these people kept
sending me baby pictures.

"Look what you did.

Look what you did."

That's fabulous.

And, and the other day when-
Mm-hmm … when Steve, that's here

at the moment helping out on the
courses, was interview- in- introduced

to everybody, um, they always say,
"And Tina gets people pregnant."

Do you know what I remember?

Oh.

Do you remember that time Paul McKenna did
some work with someone, and, um, Richard

said, "So what have you been doing, Paul?"

He said, "You know, I've
got this woman pregnant."

He seemed to … What did he say?

"Oh, you seem very
nonchalant about that, Paul."

Yeah.

Yes, yes.

That's how you did go around shouting.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, that'd be great.

Okay.

So, um, uh, can you
remind me of the dates?

Do you happen to know the dates on the
top of your head for what we're doing?

22nd of September, I think.

22nd of September.

We'll confirm that and put that out.

Yeah.

And by the way, guys, we're sending
out regular newsletters as well as

posting things in Facebook Live.

So, um, if you wanna get on the list,
if you're not on the list, go to

the website, nlpmasterclass.co.uk,

and just register for the, uh, the
e-book or go up and join the Student

Dojo, and then you'll be automatically
on the list, and you'll get all

the notes about updates and all the
things that we got going on as well.

Um, including, um, notifications about the
Secret Agents of Change membership group.

So I think we, it's worth talking
about that, because the doors

are open for that, so we've got
people joining up at the moment.

Yeah.

But if you, if you're thinking about it,
if you've been wondering about what it's

about, is where, w- uh, first Thursday
of the month, Tina does a session, a

lesson on, uh, practicing your practice.

Mm.

Something around skillsets and
techniques, and then I do a session on

growing your practice and how to take
your business to, to another level.

And then the third
Thursday off we do this.

Um- Yeah … and you get all
sorts of benefits being a

Secret Agents of Change member.

But the doors are open probably for
another week and a half at the most, then

we're gonna close it so we can concentrate
on, um, servicing and working with the

people that are in the membership group.

So yeah, go and grab it.

It's a g- I think it's a crazy good deal.

I know if it was around when
I was starting, I'd have

jumped straight onto it.

Yeah.

And I mean, all the master classes we
get, where we get people to come and

teach us their little specialties,
um, they are where you get to attend

them, they're actually recorded and
they're there just for our members.

Right.

So there's a, there's a little
library of things you can look at.

Yeah.

And, and also, i- by being a Secret
Agents of Change member, when

you watch the recordings, you're
eligible for CPD points, continuous-

Yeah … personal development.

So for those of you that, you know, you,
you need to provide those maybe for your

insurances or for associations you've
joined up with, then you get those.

So that's pretty good as well.

Um, we're joined also, it's still
early days, but we're joining a few

more associations, aren't we, Tina?

So that the, um- We are, yes,
yes … courses we offer- Yeah.

We're looking to the, uh, the
American Associat- American

Hypnotherapy Association we're
discussing things with right now.

Mm.

And I think hypnosis is starting to really
become a little bit more mainstream.

I mean, look, you're out in Orlando.

I've just come back from Estonia
with Paul, working with Mindvalley.

So they've got people out
there that are doing like the

equivalent of our foundation.

Yeah, that's what we put together.

Um, but the interest is just … I,
I guess it- Interesting … it's

like, I, I jokingly say about
marketing, you know, that there was

a, a famous Ogilvy advert where it's
something to do with real estate.

It's like when someone says, uh, you're
in real estate, they roll their eyes.

So I jokingly say, "Well," people
say, "What do you do for a living?"

You go, "I'm a coach."

People roll their eyes
and, "Not another coach."

But if you say you're a clinical
hypnotherapist, it's a completely

different thing, a different
res- different response.

So- Yes … that's one of the
reasons I think hypnosis seems

to be taking off in a way.

Maybe probably even more than
NLP possibly is what I'm seeing.

I don't know whether that's
just through my filters.

But I think there's so many coaches
out there looking- Yeah … for

something that makes them stand out.

I think quite possibly- … 'cause,
you know, we've got that, um, NLP

master trainer here, uh, in the US,
and he's doing hypnosis courses,

and he's, he's, he's looking to have
his students join our diploma Right.

Okay So guys, just because you're
overseas doesn't mean that you can't join

in with our diploma Yeah, so, so maybe
we just talk about that as well, that,

um, you know, we run our own trainings.

We've got our prac, we've got our
master prac coming up in this autumn.

Um, we've just done our, uh, business
alchemy retreat at Glastonbury,

which I thought was a- amazing.

I know I'm biased because
we, we were running it.

Well- But the feedback we got
was phenomenal, wasn't it?

It was really bonkers good.

Um- Hanu is nagging at me now for
the date for next year, 'cause he

wants to make sure he's free to come.

Yeah.

And that's a g- that's a good sign.

I mean, virtually- Yeah … every,
every person that was there at the end

were going, "I wish we had more time."

Yeah.

"Because I just wanted to carry on," or,
"I wa- I wanna come back on the next one."

Yeah.

You know?

Um, and that was, that was just like three
days of nested loops anyway, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah, three days- Um- … of stories
and doing whatever we wanted to help

these people excel In an amazing place.

I mean, the energy of
that place was phenomenal.

You know, we were at
Glastonbury Chalice Well.

For those of you who don't
know, it's like, um, this

mythology come live, isn't it?

It's like, um- Oh, yeah … I w-
I was, I- Roundtable at Excalibur.

Yeah, there were two amazing trees
which were portals to Avalon and

things like that, and we were do-
doing this amazing water ceremony which

Tina led, and pipes started playing.

I don't know where that came from.

Yeah, that was great, wasn't it?

I was like, "Hello?

What's going…"

I was like- Yeah.

Someone got the thing … another
dimension is joining in with our ceremony.

It was bonkers good.

I got Steve standing in the healing pond.

Yes, yes, with my feet.

You know.

And everybody, and everybody's around
and we're, we're doing this amazing

ceremony, and suddenly from behind me
in the trees there were pipes playing.

It was pretty cool, yeah.

So- Yeah … so we've got, we've got
our retreat, we've got the foundation

course, we've got the diploma program.

Yeah.

There's the practitioner,
the master practitioner.

Um, and we've always built the business
through referral generally, you know.

That's what- Yeah … we've
done most of, most years, yeah.

'Cause the best way to grow a
business is through connections.

So we've put together, um, an
affiliate program, friends and

ambassadors of the NLP Masterclass.

So those of you that maybe you've got
contacts, there's some of you, like the

guy Tina was mentioning, has got a, a
group of maybe 30, 35 people that are

gonna be coming on some training, yeah.

Well, we wanna reward
people for that, yeah?

Mm.

Well, some people it'll
be a business opportunity.

For some it'll just be a chance
to have others experience

what they've experienced, and
also be rewarded for that.

So a- again, go to the website,
check out the affiliates page.

Just drop your details in there, because
we're gonna be opening up the doors

for that on the, on the 1st of August.

So you can, you're gonna
have tons of material.

You can send people videos and, um, blogs
and all sorts of content to let them know

what's going on, and you get the chance
to earn some serious money as well.

Um, I…

What we're looking to do is create
it up, create it so that those

that want to run a business- Could
easily be earning a good six-figure

business if they're running it right.

And so friends is to promote
to friends and family.

Ambassadors is when you're
treating it as a serious- As a

business … business venture.

Yeah.

So there's some interesting, really
cool things happening because I

think it's a crazy time, Tina.

You know, I was talking about being
o- out, out in Estonia with Paul doing

this training, but there were people
coming from all around the world.

Yeah.

Um, just the same as, just the same
as in Orlando, people converging

from all around the world.

But so many people wanting
to train in order to help

people because the needs are
really, really desperate.

And I know that's not- Who does…

Yeah … looking through negative filters.

It's just- No, no, it's
not … what it is what it is.

Yeah, I mean, Richard always says
that we're never, ever, ever gonna

run out of people that need help.

ever.

And, and I think COVID and what's
going on at the moment with the Ukraine

and, and everything else means that
there are so many more people that

are suddenly thinking, "What do I do?

How can I deal with this?

How can I cope with this?"

Yeah.

There's a lot of people that are lost.

You can still…

Yeah, there's a lot of lost people.

Yeah

So are we ready for our first question?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Was there anything else you wanted to
talk about before we, we dived into that?

I thought we did, da, da, da.

Um, no, no, let's go, go
straight for the questions.

Let's go for it.

I think we- Here they are.

Excuse me if I cough, but, uh

… Okay, so, so somebody's looking
for practical ways to make

presentations fun and motivating.

Now, when I read this it made
me smile because, uh, Richard

Bandler often says that as an NLP
trainer, we are edu- edu- Tainers

tainers.

Edutainers.

Yes.

Yeah.

We are edu- we create edutainment.

Education, entertainment.

Do a squash.

Yeah.

Edutainment.

Edutainment, yeah.

We create edutainment.

Um, and I know this person
is an NLP trainer, you know?

Okay.

Yeah.

So how can she make, uh,
presentations fun and motivating?

So that's, uh … Yeah, just
think about your training.

Think about getting into state first.

I think that's the big one.

The other day- Mm … somebody here on
the trainers training, they were creating

different states in their audience.

Shouldn't laugh.

Uh, and they're standing
there and they're going

I remember a time when there was
something I really wanted to do, and I

just couldn't get around to doing it.

And then they went to the next
state, and it's like, no- Did,

did they go to the next state or
just they couldn't be bothered?

Well, well, so, so in c- that,
that's supposed to be hesitation.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

And then they went…

And then the more I thought
about doing it, the more annoyed

I got that I wasn't doing it.

But they were just…

And then when they got to go for it
and desire, they were going, "And

then I found this was something
I really wanted to do, and-"

And, and one of the trainers here-
We all start somewhere, don't we?

We all have to start somewhere
We all start somewhere.

This was on day one, guys.

This was on day one.

Yeah.

Uh, and this, one of the trainers
was helping them with their downward

inflection for their embedded commands.

Um, and they said, "Well, instead of
saying like, 'Hello, my name's George,'

downward inflection," and he did this.

So then he went, "Hello,
my name's George."

Okay.

It's just putting the pieces
together, isn't it, really?

It was something like that.

But- Have fun with it, you know?

Yeah.

Remember your training.

I know you've had training,
this particular person.

Remember your training, and think
about the state that you could be in,

and think about when Richard trains.

'Cause, uh, uh, 'cause I'm right
here in the middle of this right now.

Um, and now he's actually telling
them what he does when he's training.

So he runs through different
states with his nested loops.

Now, I know this person knows nested loops
'cause they've done- Mm … the training.

So he starts with hesitation
And then he goes to frustration,

and he gets the audience.

Do you remember when we
were, we were students?

You sit there, and the trainers would
go through the exercise, and you think,

"Okay, I'm gonna do an exercise."

And then for some reason they went
off on a tangent, didn't they?

They did.

Yeah, yeah.

And then they came back to the exercise,
and then they went off on a tangent.

And then they came back to the exercise,
then they went off on a tangent, until

suddenly all the students are sitting
in the room going, "Would you just let

me do the- Let me get on with this.

Yeah.

How did that happen?

Yeah.

How did that happen?

I wonder.

Yeah.

Think about how you
can create edutainment.

Over to you, my darling,
over there in the UK.

Yeah.

Okay.

So again, um, three days in front
of these amazing people, watching

Paul McKenna really perform
i- in his element, actually.

Um, we did a stage show at the
end, and he hadn't done one for

about four or five years, actually.

Great.

Um, and it was easy to forget that
his background was, before NLP and

before, you know, in the caring and
sharing business, it was an entertainer.

Because it was entertaining
from start to finish.

Okay?

For the whole three days.

There was a lot packed into the training.

Um, but the feedback from
the people there was…

Uh, uh, in the first, first set it
was like, "Well, where's our manual?

Where are the, where are the slides?

Where are all the…"

'Cause they were so used to
learning in almost like a formal

school-type way, a university way.

Yeah.

You know?

So this was new to them, completely new.

So they were a bit out of
sorts for the first morning.

But by lunchtime they were getting it,
especially when they were able to do

things and they, they had no notes,
and they were able to do it, yeah?

So the difference between someone
who's an entertainer doing education

and someone who's an educator, I
think, is worlds apart But the thing

is this, Paul has worked on his craft.

Mm.

Yeah.

He's modeled people.

He's hung around…

I remember he said that…

Some of you might remember a guy
called Noel Edmonds in the UK.

I remember Noel, yeah.

He was well known…

Yeah, he was well known for doing
live TV shows that would go on for

about an hour, and they would just
be crazy slapstick, you know- Yeah

silly stuff.

But he could work the audience,
keep the audience working.

He was flexible, and you need that if
you're gonna do a stage show, for example.

You do.

You have to deal with whatever
you're gonna deal with and be

present and, you know, be really
grounded in your, in your knowledge.

So when you see someone like
Paul entertain and educate,

they make it look easy.

Same as Richard doing his stuff.

They make it look easy.

So there's a, there's a ton of work
that goes into perfecting your craft.

Yeah?

Mm.

So I think it's important to, one,
yes, make it entertaining, but

don't try and be a stand-up comic
if you're not a stand-up comic.

You know, sure, model people, but
don't try and be somebody else.

No.

Yeah.

Be, be yourself.

Um, and make it lighthearted, make
it fun, but put that state into it.

But, but don't, don't try and be a
comedian if that's not your thing, yeah.

No, definitely.

'Cause I've seen people go down
that road, that route, and it

just kind of doesn't work, yeah.

Um, so yeah, I think that's the best
way to learn, best way to learn.

Um- And think of everything you
learn at your trainer's training.

You know, remember, think about
the, you know, indirect elicitation

patterns Make sure that you've got
embedded commands, embedded questions,

that you've got- Mm … your analog
marking, um, while you're delivering,

and make it lighthearted and fun.

Uh, I mean, we've got some- Yeah.

One, one other thing.

Sorry.

Sorry, just didn't mean to- That's
all right … jump in there,

but it's not about you as well.

No, it's not.

Yeah.

You're not there as an entertainer.

You're, you're there to impart
information, knowledge, expertise,

whatever it is that you're about doing.

So keep thinking for,
about the, the audience.

It's all about them.

You know, what do they need?

Um, yeah, I just thought it was important.

Sorry, didn't mean to jump in.

No, no, it is.

No.

No.

I agree.

It is important.

Everything you do should be
for your audience, not for you.

Uh, we see sometimes we've
got some people when they…

I mean, people now, we've got people
coming here and they want to be

trainers, and they stand up and
they give presentations, and you see

some of them paying attention to the
audience, and they're calibrating

their audience, and they're noticing
what's happening in the audience, and

they give really good presentations.

They're, they're the kind of
things that you want to listen to.

You know, the language is enticing.

Um, and you really wanna hear more
about what this person has to say.

And then somebody else will
stand up there and it's all me,

me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

And you can see the
audience just closes down.

So it's finding that balance that enables
you to, to share your information whilst

grabbing their attention and getting them
really interested in what you have to say

I think there's also something else,
um, about finding, really finding

your own style to make it stand out.

Uh, because I think there's an…

Again, this is just my view.

Um, I, I know somebody who's
really connected with TEDx, you

know, the, the, the talks, yeah?

So it's w- one of the guys I worked with
many years ago, and he got in and his

program teaches people how to present.

But there's a lot of sameness going on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There comes a point, I don't
know if you find this, but if you

watch a lot of the presentations,
they're, they're quite calm.

They're, they're way better than they
used to be, but they're still quite

samey- Yeah … all the way through.

And if you want people to remember
you, then you c- You know,

everyone else is doing this.

You need to be able to do
something that's different.

Yeah.

You know, so the brain stands out.

So it…

But that's about finding your own
style, not trying to mimic everybody

else, not trying to be somebody you're
not, and that takes a bit of practice.

So just go out there and, you
know, find your own way with it.

Yeah.

I think that's important.

And, and as you practice with it,
and then notice the, the r- results

you're having with your audience, you
can then make adjustments remembering

all about the training you've had,
about being present, calibrating your

audience, connecting with your audience.

Mm-hmm.

That's what it's all about.

Yeah.

And, and do a DTI with a you
that's been doing this for a year.

Yeah.

And then step into that you, and then
doing a, a deep trance identification

with a you that's been doing it for
another year, and see what happens then.

Hmm, that's an idea.

How about using hypnosis to hypnotize-
Yeah … yourself to be a better…

What about that?

Anyway.

That could be a good plan.

Yeah.

Just a thought.

Just a thought.

Hmm.

Ooh, so, hmm, next question.

Scaling up.

Having run my therapy and coaching
business for three years now,

I'm ready to scale up and would
love to hear your thoughts about

where group therapy/coaching
can fit in to a business model.

I'm thinking that group sessions
can potentially feed in and give me

one-to-one sessions, and vice versa.

What self-coaching questions should
I be asking to inform next steps?

What self-coaching question should
I be asking to inform next steps?

That's what it says.

What does that mean?

Do you know what that means?

I don't know what that means.

Unless it's what should they
be asking themselves- To decide

what to do next … yeah.

That, that, that's what
I've com- Pos- possibly.

We'll go- From the rest of
the- We'll go with that.

We'll go with that.

Okay.

I'll check to see if we get
any, any other response online.

Uh, so I'll tell you what, I, I wanna
go somewhere else with answering this.

It's like, well, why do you wanna scale?

Yeah, that would be my first w-, you
know, what does scaling mean to you?

Why do you want to scale?

Um, because scaling could mean
it's doing a lot more work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, is it because you want more revenue?

Yeah.

Is it because you want more sales?

Is it because you want a bigger audience?

I think you really wanna have
clarity on your motivation and

reasons behind scaling, and what
you think that's gonna look like.

And I'll tell you why that, that is
really, really important to get clarity

on that, is because any organization
that goes through, um, its early learning

stages and it survives for the first
couple of years, if it's growing Whatever

got it to where it, it is now probably
won't get it to where it needs to be.

Mm.

Okay?

So the processes, the, the
mindset, the attitudes, the way

they manage finance is probably…

I say probably because the, it
depends on how f- how, how big

the gap is between where they
are now, where they're gonna be.

Yeah.

Like, your processes will probably
work up to a certain point before

they'll start to buckle, and then
you need to look at, um, growing and

evolving and bringing in new services.

And it could be marketing.

It goes for everything.

There's, like, a threshold to
everything when you go, "It's

kind of not working anymore."

Yeah?

Yeah.

So people aren't, quite
often aren't ready for that.

I see that with companies.

So I know this is, this is a solopreneur.

This is someone that's just
running their own practice, yeah?

This is a solopreneur.

Yeah.

So, um, but with companies, let's say
their staff list, like, three, four,

five people, and they're doing up to
maybe 2 million a year, and that's,

that's kind of working for them.

But then when they get up to
five and they need 20 people,

what was working probably isn't.

Mm.

But are they able to evolve to that stage?

And then when we're going up to 10- tens
and 20 millions and- Yeah … having

50 people or whatever, the, the mindset
and the strategies for scaling are very

different to- Yeah … when you're just
doing your own lonesome stuff, yeah?

So really think about it.

What does scaling mean to you?

Why are you gonna be doing it?

If it's about more revenue,
then why do you need to scale?

Just put your rates up, you know?

Maybe, you know, get a little
bit more efficient at, uh,

getting referral work in.

Um, so I'm not saying don't go for
scaling if, if the scaling is going for

groups 'cause, um, the two do feed in.

You know, you can get groups in at
reasonably reasonable rates, and then

you upsell to doing maybe one-to-one
mentoring, or you do one-to-one

mentoring and sell or gift a group.

So it's all part of the, what
we call the value ladder.

You know, you have to have these
different layers of offerings, service

offerings for people with different needs.

Um, but yeah, scaling is definitely one
way to, to increase revenue, increase

profits, and increase headaches.

Just remember that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I remember- Be ready for
it … when I first started out, I

did all sorts of things to see what
was gonna work for me personally.

Um, I did, um- uh, hypnotic diet
sessions in a church hall where, you

know- Mm … I'd get 20 or 30 people
turn up on an evening, and then we'd

take them through so many weeks of
process, uh, which started out great.

It was fabulous.

But then you have to remember that people
like Weight Watchers and Slimming World

and all these people, um, people come
in and pay them, like, I don't know,

two quid or a fiver for the night.

Um- Mm.

And I wanted way more
than that for my group.

Um, so I did that for a while.

And then, of course, with my childbirth
classes, I used to do those in groups.

Uh, but that, that, that was the, the,
the money there was scaled differently.

There's lots of babies being born
if y- you get the right connections

with the hospitals and the midwives.

And I would go along to, um, midwifery
sections in hospitals and offer to come

and do, like, an introduction for the
midwives and/or the, the mums-to-be.

And I'd go there, and I'd do, like,
a free, a free session for everybody,

and that would bring people in.

And, and then I think I…

What else did I…

Oh, I did intro, intro sessions too.

So for example, uh, for the, for the diet
club, I would do, around Christmastime

I'd have a free introduction, how you
could lose all your Christmas weight

in January simply, quickly, easily.

And I would do that just
before the summer holidays too.

Um, and then I would do another
intro talking about, you know,

stopping smoking and, and all the
New Year's resolutions that, that

people were gonna be making, and they
could come along and book sessions.

And that, that worked
quite well for a while.

Yeah.

And, and the group sessions are,
are so much easier to do now,

especially you can get people online.

They don't have to travel.

Yeah.

The logistics are so much easier.

But really, really think
about your business model.

You know, I, I talked in one of the,
um, I think it was the very first…

Listen, it doesn't matter.

It was one of the first lessons we
did in the Secret Agents of Change

membership group about building
the eng- financial engine of the

machine, how important it is.

That, um, like Tina was saying, you
could bring someone in, it'll be a

low cost, maybe £2, £5 is what they're
paying for a weight loss program.

So you're not gonna make money there.

But if you know what the lifetime value of
your customer is, that customer could turn

into somebody who's gonna spend 500, maybe
2,000, maybe even 20,000 on something.

So you don't mind having a load of
people coming in at 2, 5 pounds if that's

recovering your costs for getting them
in, if you know you're gonna get the

conversion right and, uh, and the upsell.

So it really is also make sure you
do, you do the maths with this, yeah?

So it doesn't become a vanity thing.

Actually, that's the thing
to avoid, a vanity…

I must scale up, yeah, because then I
know I'm doing, doing, doing better.

No, really think about your motivation
and really think about the maths and

really think about the, um, the, uh,
value added proposition that you've got

so that you make the economics are right.

And, uh, yeah, then go for
it if it works for you.

So again, going with, um, I
suppose increasing profit margins.

Um, my regional rate is cheaper than the
amount I charge when working in London,

yet the service I provide is the same.

So the question is, apart from covering
the extra costs for room hire, et cetera,

what are your thoughts on what we charge
in relation to the demographics and

our perception on what they can afford?

Well, but there, there's two different
things there, the demographics and what

they think, what we think they can afford.

Um, I wanna deal with the last one.

It's, um…

Okay, here, here's
something a bit provocative.

It's not your issue to decide
what you think they can afford.

I agree.

Yeah.

Um, let people know the value of what you
do, and then the right people will see

the value of that, and they'll pay it.

It's not for you to mind-read
whether it's too expensive for this

person, because you can't tell that.

You can…

You meet someone and you see them.

You might get an email from them.

You haven't got any idea, uh, how
much value they've got, how much

of a need they've got, what they're
willing to pay, none of that.

So don't even go down that place, yeah?

Um, and then in terms of the
demographics, well, I, I saw somebody

live face-to-face, it's the second
person this year, in my office on Friday.

Um, and I only did that
because they lived in the town.

Yeah?

It seemed a little bit churlish to go
… No, we go, "Okay, come on in," you know.

Um, but apart from that,
I've not seen anybody…

No, there's one other person actually.

Um, but they were, they were flying in,
so it was, it was good timing, yeah?

Um, but now everything…

I do everything on Zoom, absolutely
everything on Zoom, yeah?

And the results are the same.

Mm.

Yeah?

So I've got the savings of
my transport to and fro.

Um, I still keep my office.

I call it my expensive filing cabinet,
but I like to have it there, so

it's not horrifically expensive.

Um, but I like to have it there because
I do like to get away occasionally and

sit down in, in an environment where I
can do some filming and recording, so

it's more set up as a recording studio.

But I don't think the
demographics matter anymore.

If, if it's something which is an
issue for you, whoever wrote this,

then I think you need to really stop
and sit and reflect upon the value.

Do some work on getting real
clarity on the value that you offer.

Yeah.

And if you look at the two, you know,
the value in like, uh, maybe in London,

like Hardley Street, you know, 'cause
it hard- hardly ever changes- Hardly.

Yeah … does it?

You go to- Yeah.

No, it hardly- It's, it's a joke, yeah.

It does.

It, it's a- Um, or, or on Zoom,
and if there's no difference-

charged the same.

I- I, I, you, you know I had a
clinic in Wimbledon, don't you?

You remember my clinic in Wimbledon.

Oh, do, yeah.

Yeah.

In Wimbledon.

And then, um, my business partner
Sarah went off to South America to,

um, I don't know, live with hill
tribes for a couple of years.

Yeah.

Never seen her again, yeah.

Um, but I was, I was
rattling around on my own.

I thought, "I ne- I'm gonna work uptown."

I found a really nice place in
central London, which I think I told

you and a few other people about.

Yeah.

Um, and then I suddenly realized I was
commuting two hours a day, maybe three

hours a day, which I never used to do.

And I went, "Hold on.

I value, I really value my time."

Mm.

And now I'm spending three hours a
day, which I never used to spend,

so I s- I stopped doing that.

Yeah.

So yeah, cut down the travel.

Definitely.

Earn the same money for less.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I have the same fee
whether I'm working, um, at

home, on Zoom, or in London.

I mean, I, I had a, a, I had an
office in Harley Street for years.

Uh, it cost a fortune, and it was a tip.

And I gave it up the day that I
went in one Saturday to work with

somebody, and I went to use the
toilet, and Steve, it was disgusting.

Um, and, and I even said to the clients
I had on that Saturday, I suggested they

use the Starbucks across the street.

Really?

That bad, yeah.

A yacht toilet on the floor.

Mm.

Um, and then I, yeah, I s- I stopped the
Harley Street thing 'cause it's just a

money-making machine for whoever owns
those, owns those dingy old buildings.

Mm.

And then I went to an office
in London, and like you, I was

thinking, "Well, hang on a minute.

It's…

I'm spending, like, three and a half,
sometimes four hours a day traveling."

Mm-hmm.

And I'm paying for the office,
and I could just stay in my other

office and get the same money.

There's something else about being
able to work online with people

as well in terms of marketing-
Mm … which totally changes it.

Um, you get to, you get to do the research
and find out where your clients hang out.

Okay?

Well, they may not be in the vicinity
where you live, or they may not be

in the vicinity where the, um…

your, your premises are
that you're working from.

So all of your marketing needs
to go to where they're at-

Mm … not where you work.

Yeah?

So it enables you to li-
literally, you know, geo-target,

if you like, where people are.

So for example, um, I don't
know, I'm like saying…

Let's say there's a wellbeing exhibition
going on somewhere, Mind, Body and

Spirit, something like that, yeah?

That if you're doing online marketing,
you can actually target that particular

area where you may know there's gonna
be thousands and thousands of people

so that your marketing gets seen by
them, even though you might be living

somewhere, you know, the Isle of
Wight or, you know, a little offshore

island off the south coast, yeah?

Yeah.

But it doesn't matter, yeah?

So if you get the demographics
out of, out of, uh…

stop that thinking of that as
an issue, you know, it opens

up so many other possibilities.

You could go, "Do you know what?

I only want clients in, um…"

Like, I met quite a few people that
were living in Dubai and Singapore and,

uh, this was, you know, the other week.

And I thought, "Actually,
I've not been running ad- any

advertising campaigns to Dubai."

You know, there's loads of people there.

Singapore, there's loads of people
really interested in personal

development now in Singapore.

So it doesn't have to be just
because I live in southwest London.

I- the…

my marketing can go anywhere, yeah?

Yeah.

So, you know, keep away
from the demographics.

Start to, you know, think
of it as a benefit, I think.

Yeah.

I mean, uh, since…

well, just before COVID, uh, and since
COVID when I've been expanding on Zoom, I

mean, I've got clients in Australia, South
Africa, California, South America, Canada.

It doesn't matter.

You just have to be able to sort out
your time differences and you're off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, it's a global economy.

It's a global opportunity
and, uh- And don't go for the

cheapest rate and choose that.

So if you're charging more for- Yeah.

No … your, your uptown rate, you
know, do your Zoom rates, uh, the same.

Do your local at the same.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's all the same.

Same work.

Oh, I like th- I like this one.

I'm gonna get your
views on this one first.

Oh, dear.

Because it's making me smile.

Uh, I recently worked with a
client who suddenly sought having

affairs through a dating site.

And, um- Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Why are you asking me that?

Let's get this clear.

I have never been involved
in anything like this.

Right?

I know.

So, so, okay.

Right.

No, no, no, no.

From a therapy perspective, not from
a going out there- Oh, from a therapy.

Thank you … sleeping with other
people perspective … experiential.

From a, from a, from
a therapy perspective.

Thank you.

Let's just get that clear.

Yeah.

Not from an, an experience.

Now, in therapy we say- No,
no, no … "Go there first."

I'm not suggesting you're,
you're addicted to- But not…

… to dating sites.

Thank you.

Oh,

dear.

Sorry.

I, I have, I've…

Look, ch- check my phone, guys.

There's nothing on, there's none on this.

So, so this person became addicted
to getting re- having relationships

with people on dating sites, and they
had this secret, like, um, Walter

Mitty life, um, and they were married.

So the client went to them because
they wanted to stop the behavior

to protect their marriage.

Mm-hmm.

And the session that they ran focused
on changing behaviors, and the client

eventually left the office feeling better.

Um, and the, the person asking the
question has said, "It took me at least

an hour to establish a well-formed outcome
because my client's identity, values,

and behaviors don't match their partner's
in terms of what's okay in the marriage.

It also took me time to realize that the
new behavior was a suppressed behavior.

The client only became- The new
behavior was a suppressed behavior.

Well, the behavior of- Or the new
behavior … of, of dating people

and being married at the same time,
the behavior of cheating on his wife-

Mm-hmm … was a suppressed behavior.

Was a previously suppressed behavior.

Okay.

You all right.

Yeah.

And the client only became monogamous
because he wanted this person to marry

him, and that was one of their…

That was very important to them.

So the question is, that's the background,
how do you manage the situation

appropriately when the client is trying
to live a life that's incongruent

with what they really want to do?

I think it's a great question.

Could you j- just say the question again?

How do you manage the situation
appropriately when the client is trying

to live a life that's incongruent
with what they really want to do?

Okay.

Well, to me it's like
any piece of change work.

It's w- well, what do you want?

What do you really want?

Yeah.

What do you really, really, really want?

And if we explore that, then the
motivation for wanting to change becomes

clear, or the lack of motivation for
wanting to change- Yeah … becomes clear.

So it's, that's probably
where the work is.

Yeah.

Because if there is an incongruency, if
there is a, an ecology, um, mismatch, if

there's something that's gonna keep them
stuck in that old behavior, yeah, then

that, that's where we go with the work.

Mm.

Yeah?

Yeah.

That's where I'd, I'd go with that.

I'd just say, "Well, what do you want?

Are you sure you want this?"

Yeah.

'Cause your behavior's not…

You know, I'd, I'd just keep
digging, and even be a little

bit provocative with it, yeah?

Um, because I think as we keep asking
and getting provocative and digging this,

into what's the motivation, we- Yeah

we enrich the map, and
they enrich their map.

And it might turn out they,
they go, "Do you know what?

I'm quite happy with my dating thing-
Yeah … 'cause that's what I want."

Yeah?

And if that's what they want,
that's what they want, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

'Cause I'm reading this and thinking,
"He doesn't want to be monogamous."

Well, we, we may not know that.

It might, it could be he wants to
be monogamous, but he just actually

wants to shag around as well.

Well- Yeah.

Well, you can't be monogamous- So
you can't be- … and shag around.

You can be married and shag around.

So- You can't be
monogamous and shag around.

So we can do a visual squash.

You know, get three p- get three involved.

Um.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But no, it's, it's about y-
you … those conditions-

Yeah … are well-formed outcomes.

Uh, they're so important to get right.

Yes … to, to, to hang
out with and dig deep.

And maybe even this person might
wanna think about, if it took a

while to get, get data from them- Mm

think about your induction form.

Get the information from them before.

Get the person really- Mm … thinking
about stuff so when you turn up,

you can check the information,
but then go and challenge it.

Really go and challenge
it- Yes, definitely.

Definitely … to see if it's true,
and they're just telling you what they

wanna hear or what they think is right.

Yeah.

And dig deeper- Mm … when
they answer your questions.

Um, I, I- Mm … I worked with a guy a
f- few years ago now, who was married-

Mm … to a very well-known celebrity, who
was and is beautiful, and a lot of guys

consider this woman to be very sexual,
very alluring, and, and very desirable.

And her husband could only
get it off by watching porn.

Uh, and, and his wife didn't like it.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and, um, he tried to make the
watching the porn part of his relationship

with his wife, and the watching of the
porn was because deep down inside, he

actually didn't want to be monogamous.

He wanted to be out there having sex
with other women, and in his head,

he thought by watching porn, he
could remain physically monogamous if

mentally- He was doing his visual squash.

Yeah, if mentally he was somewhere else.

Um, and- Mm-hmm … and like through,
through the whole sessions and everything,

it was because his wife wanted him
to stop watching the pornography.

Uh, and he didn't wanna stop
watching the pornography.

So we actually came to an
agreement that he would run the

porn movies in his imagination

So his wife didn't know he
was running the pornography.

And, and it worked.

You know, she was happy, he was happy.

Mm.

I think there's a tendency for a lot
of people, um, and I'm, I'm saying this

because of people that have come to me
after they've seen loads of other people.

Yeah.

In fact, there was a guy this week, so it,
it was a second session, some work that

we did, and there was a list of people,
and I recognized some of the names.

I thought, "They, they do good work,
they do good work, they do good work."

And then I went, "They've missed this.

Okay, why didn't that work?

Okay, they've missed something."

But I spent an hour digging into it.

There was an intuition.

It, it was in his language, actually.

There's like a little, little sentence
where there's a couple of words.

I went, "Oh, there's something
there that's really pivotal."

If that's going, still going on,
it's like, um, if you do weeding

and you leave a little bit of a
root in, the weed comes back, yeah?

Yeah.

And I thought, "That…

Well, so what have all
these people missed?"

Because something's still holding the
behavior in place, and I, and I found it.

So, but I spent an hour asking questions
and, and checking and calibrating.

So like in this instance, I said, you
know, "Do you remember that time?"

And I went, "Oh, wow, okay.

You just remembered it like first person.

You were five years of age.

There was something that went on."

It's like, boom.

Okay, that is still significant.

Yeah.

That's holding the, this
behavior in place, yeah?

But it took a lot of
digging and the diagnostics.

I think the diagnostics are so important
before you go, "Right, let's roll our

sleeves up and let's technique you."

You know?

Yeah.

'Cause, 'cause you wanna know what…

where the work is, yeah.

Yeah.

And I was just…

You talking about that, that's something
else we should do for people as well,

is actually sit down between us and
figure out our diagnostics and put it

in a strategy and a process for people.

Mm.

That would be invaluable.

Well, the bits that we, we can
share easily, because there's a

lot of intuitive download- Yeah

and calibrating that, um…

But, I mean, that opens up other
things that, skills that we…

you and I take for granted.

Yeah.

It does.

Um, like trying on what- Mm … people
are saying and going, "Mm, okay.

No, I'd still be stuck in the
addiction if I was doing that."

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, that's,
that'd be another good one.

Yeah, that, that must definitely
go on the should list.

I like what you said.

That's gonna go on the should list.

So to, just to sum up the answer to
that one, I'd definitely spend more

time with the diagnostics and find
out what they want, what they really,

really want, what they really, really-
Mm … really, really want, yeah,

to see if it is ecologically sound.

Um- And, and, and sometimes I
think when you're dealing with

relationship issues, especially when
there's, like, this kind of, um…

Like, when there's sex involved
and there's other relationships

and, and people that were married
going off and doing other things,

they don't always tell you the
truth- Mm … the first time round.

You have to dig.

Well, it's like most addictions, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

As some more than others but, you
know, alcohol- alcoholism, you can

be pretty sure you're not getting all
the truth from someone, generally.

Yeah.

'Cause they're so used to covering up.

And I think there's something else around
the addiction side of it that- Yeah

… and it's, again, it's another, uh,
generalization, but it's most addictions

are to compensate something that's been
suppressed- Mm … even, yeah, have been

disowned, maybe never even explored.

So they find- Yeah … a way
to, to, to meet that need.

So if you can find out what that need is,
it might be saying there's not a lit need

anymore, then the addiction's not needed.

Um, but that does require a bit more time.

And I guess, I guess it, it depends on
how the sess- sessions are structured.

Like, something like that, I
wouldn't necessarily treat it as,

like, a phobia or a quick fix.

Yeah.

No.

I'd leave it open to go, "Come in, do
the sessions, but we're probably gonna

need a little bit of exploration time."

You know?

'Cause, uh, I think another thing
is a lot of people see people like

Richard and Paul or Michael or John
and all the other people, you know,

even us doing stuff on stage, and we
do, like, a demo and it's a quick fix.

Yeah.

But complete pieces of work
sometimes do require a number of

sessions to, to go, "Well, we…

I know what you've come in for is to deal
with the addiction, but actually what it

is is you don't, you don't value yourself.

You were told as a kid you
were-" Yeah … "worthless."

And so that's suppre- you know, to
have the time to explore those things,

and so you can do a complete whole
piece of change work with someone.

Yeah, I think that's really
important for, for people to notice.

And also when you choose your demo
subject on a course, there are people

that are desperate to be demo subjects,
and we might not choose them, and one

of the reasons could be that we can see
that they need more than a quick fix.

Yeah They need more work Yeah Other stuff
needs to happen, and it's not appropriate

to do that, A, in front of an audience,
um, and B, it's not something that we

could do quickly, simply and easily to
demonstrate a technique for the students.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, uh, it's quarter past.

We've started late, so I think we can
go on for another five minutes just

to make up the hour, do you reckon?

Have we got any more questions?

Yeah.

Yeah Yeah We can.

We can.

I've got, I've got another question here.

Um, so

They say, love this, they say.

Who's they?

They say.

They say- I was just
about to go into Hamilton.

Never mind.

They say we parent as we've been parented.

I'm about to work with a new client who
believes that their childhood trauma

is driving their current parenting
style that they want to change

Regarding the change work, we have so
much in our toolkit to offer, and I'm

not short of ideas, but I'd love to
hear about your experiences of working

with parents who want to make cultural
changes and the success thereafter

cultural changes or the behavioral changes
and the success thereafter to parents.

Well, I, I guess any changes,
uh, first of all someone has

to be aware there's a problem.

Yes.

If they're not aware, then
there's, what's the problem?

Then they have to be willing, then
they need to learn how to, and then

there needs to be the time for that to
be embedded in and locked in to be a

unconscious competence, if you like, yeah?

Um, I think that works for,
that's the process- Yeah … for

every type of change, isn't it?

So.

It is, yeah.

They've got to really, really,
really, really want it, not just

come in and say, "Well, I'm having
a problem parenting my children.

I don't think I'm doing a good job.

I really need to change what
I'm doing with my children.

Oh, and by the way, I had
this trauma when I was X."

'Cause sometimes people, if they're
not doing anything great now,

instead of thinking, "Oh, well I just
need to get better at doing this.

How can I improve what I'm doing?

What do I need to do so that my
parenting style, um, helps my children,

improves my family relationships?"

Sometimes people need to look for a
reason why they're not very good at

doing this, or their perception that
they're not very good at doing this.

And then they start thinking back to,
oh, well, there was that time when

this happened and, and maybe I was
traumatized and, and they come up

with all sorts of reasons as to why
they're messing up in the present.

Um, so with those people, I guess there is
a point of going back and fixing what they

perceive to be the problem from the past.

I don't necessarily agree that that
always is the problem from the past.

Um, I think there are other
things that can be done.

So I, if they're, if they really
believe that we had to do that, then

I would go back and do some timeline
work and some regression work.

I might do a change personal history,
or I might just have them to free

flow and go back to the point where
they believe this all started.

And that could be in this life or
in a previous life or somewhere else

entirely, and then work with that.

Then bring them back to the present,
bringing back all the new learnings

from that part of their history.

And then from there, I would then
have them floating out into the

future at a point in time where all
of this was resolved, and then to

float into that future self to get
all the learnings from the future- To

review the new behavior and then bring
all that back to the present moment.

I think that's what I'd do.

Mm.

Yeah, what she said.

Okay.

Th- well, I want to add
something different to what

Tina said, 'cause yeah, that-

Sure … that's brilliant.

Okay?

But it just shows that we can go so many
different ways with working with someone.

You s- you've got such a vast, um,
range and array of toys in our toy

box and tools in our toolbox, yeah?

That as long as you're not just using the
hammer to fix everything, 'cause then you

treat everything as a nail, you've got
this full range and you decide what works.

You work with the person in front of you.

But I would be starting off by
checking, do they have an idea of

what good parenting really looks like?

Yeah, and, and how does their
current identity match to that?

So I'd even be looking
at the logical levels.

Yeah.

Have they got some sense of what
parenting looks like, or are they

referencing something from the past?

And then explore that.

So are their beliefs underpinning that?

Um, because it may even bui-
be that they just don't know

what good parenting looks like.

You know?

Yeah.

I mean, we'd, we were talking
earlier on about fertility and,

you know, we ended up adopting.

So I had the misfortune of
going to parenting classes.

And, and I say the misfortune 'cause it's
part of the, the process we had to go

through as potentially adoptive parents.

They needed to make sure we were trained
to be parents, and I was quite indignant.

I thought, "Well, hold on.

If, if things were happening
naturally, I wouldn't need to

actually prove anything to you."

Yeah.

And some of the, some of the
teaching we got was just ridiculous.

But to make su- I, I was told
to zip it most of the time.

Yeah, because- Gonna go with- … you
know, we had to go, we had to go

through this to go, "Yes, you have
been a qualified trained parent," yeah?

Um, but most parents
don't go through that.

So sometimes there can be
skills that are missing.

Yeah.

Um, but I wouldn't go necessarily
working straight on the skills.

I wouldn't go necessarily
working with the beliefs.

Wouldn't go necessarily working
straight on the identity.

You know?

You've gotta explore and go,
where is, where's the work that's

gonna make the biggest difference?

Um, maybe where there's the e-
where's the easy change work?

Yeah.

Getting them to maybe see that
there's some skills that are missing,

and they have to go and learn from
better parents out there, you know?

Yeah.

Um, a- and then- Then we move to
the deep tra- DTI so they could

deep trance identify with what, who
they perceive to be a better parent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A- and then work out, work your way up
and down through the logical levels.

So yeah, that's, that's, that's
a complete piece of work.

Mm.

Yeah.

Um, but again, it's one of these
things where it's important not

to impose your map of what you
think good parenting is on people.

Yeah.

You know?

Even if you are a good parent.

You know, or you believe
yourself to be a good parent.

Yeah.

I think parenting is, is
fabulous because you go…

You learn how to be a parent as you're
raising the child, 'cause nobody can

really tell you what to do until you
have that little person in front of you.

Right.

'Cause they've all got different
personalities and different,

different wants, different needs,
different, different, um, well,

different ways to demand things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As only children can.

Yeah, it's an interesting one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a good, good place to
be working and supporting.

Now, it's, and it's great if someone
goes, "Hey, I wanna be a better parent."

I mean, fabulous.

Yeah.

We could all do with a
lot of that, I'm sure.

Excuse me.

We definitely- So, okay, we're 22
minutes past the hour now, so I mean,

I'm enjoying chatting to you, Tina.

We can keep going on for ages, I'm sure.

We could, yes.

Um, do you wanna do one more,
or do you wanna call time?

Um, I think there's just one, one
more thing that I'd like to bring up.

Um, there's a, there's been a comment,
um, from, from Jane where she said-

Mm-hmm … in the chat regarding the,
the guy that wanted to fuck around

and didn't wanna be monogamous.

Mm-hmm.

I think Jane is making a comment
coming from the point of the wife,

'cause in the comment she's ma- she's
made a comment about how, um, it,

it can be very hurtful to the other
person who is being cheated upon.

Mm.

Mm.

And of course, yes, it can
definitely be hurtful from that

other person's point of view.

When we're working with our clients,
sometimes you may have somebody that

comes to see you that is having an
affair, um, and wants some way of dealing

with what's going on in their head
and what's going on with their desires

to have those extramarital relations,
to try and find some kind of resolve,

and the wife knows nothing about it.

Or maybe the wife does know something
about it and is very hurt, and your client

is the person in front of you, is, is…

I'm gonna say man, because in
this case the, the, the question

we had earlier was a man.

So you've got the man in front of you, who
is your client, and your job there is to

support and help him achieve some form of
resolution to what's going on in his head.

Um, and thinking about how much it's
hurting his wife- Can't come into

it, because if I'm considering the
amount of pain he's causing his wife

and possibly his children, that could
then alter the way that I respond to

my client who is looking for my help.

I don't know if you've got
anything to add to that.

No, actually.

It's, it's just a really valid point,
and it comes back to not, um, not

imposing our map on any, on anybody.

Yeah.

Which can be challenging in
some situations- Yes, very

so … for sure, actually.

You know, 'cause you're a
caring, considerate person.

You think, "Oh, what
about the other person?"

But that will really bias and affect
your judgment on how you show up for the

person who has come to you for assistance.

Yeah?

And whatever the results they
get, if they are the result, right

results for them, they may not be the
right results for us, what we would

think- Yeah … in that situation.

Yeah.

Yet it's the right result for them, and
that's what we should be looking to do.

Um- Yeah … and if that's
a challenge, then that's an

area not to work in as well.

Yeah, I mean, one of the things-
Yeah … one of the things we do on

the diploma that we teach, on one of
the weekends, uh, we spend a whole

day dealing with hypnotic fertility,
and there's another whole day dealing

with psychosexual issues, and within
the whole psychosexual issues, you've

obviously got things like anorgasmism
and vaginismus and, and, and all sorts

of other sexual issues around there.

And you also may have somebody come to
see you who is, um, into child pornography

or, or has been, um, a, a child molester.

They're not anymore, but they may come to
see you for help, or maybe they come to

see you and they are and nobody knows yet.

And 'cause that's a point where you
actually have to say to that person

that it is your legal obligation
to report what they've been doing.

But that's a legal obligation- It is
a legal … rather than, rather than a

moral judgment- It is, yeah … which
the relationship, the person being hurt,

that's a mo- Yeah, that's a moral judgment
… that's your own moral judgment, but

that's a legal- But with the- Yeah.

… with the, with the sex offender, it's,
it's a legal obligation if nobody knows.

Mm.

But I mean, I, I have actually turned
down sex offenders where they've

wanted to come to see me for help
with the pr- the fact that they

desire young children, et cetera.

I won't work with them.

Um, and that's my choice
because I just don't want to.

So maybe your choice would be that
you wouldn't want to work with anybody

coming to see you for help along
those issues we discussed with the guy

who wanted to go to, to prostitutes
or dating sites at the same time.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and, and that's part
of the, the skill, isn't it?

Developing your expertise is-
It is, yes … you know, having

clarity on what you say no to.

Yeah.

That's, that's important
in terms of success.

You go, "No."

Yeah.

"No, I can't, I can't really be of
full service to someone- No … if,

um, I'm emotionally or historically
involved in, in a particular outcome."

One of the questions, one of the
questions I was asked right in the

very beginning when I was doing my, my
degree course in clinical hypnotherapy,

I remember the first, uh, class I
went to, we had to sit and think

about who we didn't want to work with.

Who don't you wanna work with?

Yeah.

Who don't you wanna help?

Um- Yeah … and that,
like, child molesters was…

And it's still there.

Not interested.

Mm.

Okay.

Right.

Yeah.

So we can wrap that up.

So hopefully that's, uh,
commentary on that that's useful.

So what are you doing tomorrow?

You're day four of the
trainers training, is that?

Yes.

Well, tomorrow we have a trainers lunch.

So Richard, John, and Kathleen,
and all the assistants, we have

lunch with the students tomorrow.

And then in the afternoon we're gonna
be doing some more skill drills.

All right.

Well, have fun.

Love to everybody out there.

Definitely.

And, um, well, I'll see
you in, in a week's time.

You're back, aren't you?

Don't come back till the middle of August.

Okay.

I'm gonna go shopping- Well, enjoy
your time … and get a suntan.

Fabulous.

Well, I'm- Yeah … gonna get a suntan
as well, 'cause we've got sunshine here.

All right.

Well, I have- Fabulous, everybody.

Yeah.

Thank you for showing up.

Yeah.

Thanks, everyone.

Hope you've enjoyed it.

And, um, yes, next
time- See you next month

maybe we'll be on time, Tina.

We'll see.

We'll both be in the same time
zone, so that'll help, I'm sure.

That should help.

All right.

Yeah.

Be well.

Much love, everyone.

Bye, everyone.

Be well.

Bye.

Much love.

Bye.