NLP MasterCLASS

Well, hello everyone.

Hello.

Good evening.

Um, yeah, well, good morning or good
afternoon, depending on where you are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I still forget about that bit.

Yes.

It's a, it's a global world, Tina.

Yeah.

But yeah, all around the world.

Is it not just, uh, you know,
UK centric anymore, is it?

Unless, of course you're part
of the Flat Earth Society, in

which case it's all across the.

Flatness.

I guess

so how have you been?

Because I haven't spoken
to you much this month.

I understand you've been busy, isn't it?

You It's been four moons and
coming up to Halloween and, oh,

there's lots of stuff going.

Keeps you busy, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

It's, I'm saying I've up, what I'm
replying, I've dusted off the Broome

and yeah, I've been out exploring.

There's been a hot, there's been a, yeah,
Hunter's Moon, always a hunter's moon.

Just before Halloween is there.

Yeah, it's been, it's
been quite interesting.

I dunno about you, but there's a lot
of people talking about planetary

aspects and uh, how, you know Yeah.

The solar system and beyond has
really affected them at the moment.

I, yeah.

Do you think we are just
becoming more aware?

'cause I mean, for years and years and
years, there was always a few days of the

month that I never, ever slept very well.

Um, and because boys or men or males would
say, oh, was it that time of the month?

And it wasn't necessarily.

Um, and it was only as I got older that
I realized it was connected to the moon.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so whenever there was a full moon,
'cause when there's a full moon, the

magnetic shield around the planet changes.

Oh, that explains when my, my
hair keeps standing on end.

Yeah.

Well, luckily mine doesn't.

Good look a bit weird.

Mind you, I could be very Bri
of Frankenstein, couldn't I?

With a big white thing, Leonard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we, we, getting to that
time of the year, aren't we?

Where, you know, um, certainly in
the uk the evenings are closing in.

It's dark now.

Uh, it's been dark
since about six o'clock.

It's dark in the morning.

And, um, I think there's a, there's
a, there's um, and it's a huge mind

read, but there seems to be like
this, uh, this mood of so many people.

So looking forwards to
Christmas and being.

Shocked that it's not far away,
but also looking forward to it.

'cause they've had such a lousy year,
you can't wait for it to get over.

I'm looking forward to December because
I found out the other day 'cause I was

gonna go on a trip for my birthday.

I found out the other day that Joey has
got me tickets to go and see Tom Jones.

Oh nice.

Yeah, but we owe too, so
it's not a usual want to do.

Yeah.

So even, even us n peers are looking for
external to change internal, aren't we?

Of course.

Oh that's great.

No, that's good.

Um, I'm looking forward is
to maybe get away with, might

go somewhere like Iceland.

I just ice.

I just feel the urge.

Urge to go somewhere.

I've been to Iceland before.

Uh, feel the urge to go somewhere.

A little bit risque.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Some go across an ice sheet
or something like that.

High cup, high cup of volcano.

Just do something a little bit different.

Yeah, that just to, just
to finish off actually.

Well I think it's been
a really cracking year.

Well, I, yeah, I'm gonna go back to
Spain and see my friend, uh, and stay

in Spain for a week before Christmas.

Um, so, so I'm just gonna say
here 'cause we've got, people are

popping up and saying hello and,
and we have thumbs and things.

Mm-hmm.

I'm tracking what's going on here.

Um, so it's, um, when Sarah Marco in Aroma
and of course says Hi Jane and everybody,

I can't, I can't see all the names
'cause then I wouldn't be looking at you.

Uh, so Hello everybody.

Uh, we are just discussing how we're
gonna finish off the year with a bang.

Steve's gonna do it in the
ice and the snow in Iceland.

Maybe go and see Santa.

Mm-hmm.

Iceland or Finland, something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I've dunno about you.

It's been a pretty good year.

I've enjoyed this year so far.

It's not over yet, but still October.

Um, but it's so easy, I think,
isn't it, to get caught up in

the, you know, massive hypnosis.

Yeah.

Unless we're NLPs and we realize
what's going on and how easy it is

to mind read and be affected by other
people's states are being, and you

think is to step out of whatever
anybody's trying to pull you into.

Mm-hmm.

And people start looking for weird stuff.

I mean, we've got this question here
I'm gonna start off with from Robert.

Um, so Hi Robert.

He says he's received an inquiry.

From a lady who believes she has repressed
memories of her childhood of a trauma and

has asked if I could help recover them.

Now I could offer her regression.

Uh, but he, he wants to
know what we would do.

And, and if he was to unearth,
unearth, buried abuse, would

the client actually benefit?

And he is also worried that he
could implant a false memory

and thus create, um, a lawsuit.

That's a really meaty question.

Yeah.

Nice.

Easy one to, yeah.

Yeah.

To start off, start the evening off with.

Yeah.

I just have a sip of water.

You have a sip of water.

So I get a lot of people
that contact me and say.

Um, I suffered from anxiety,
obsessive compulsive, or this or

something else all of my life.

And I was talking to my friend and she
said something really bad must have

happened to me when I was a child.

Or they say, well, you know, I was
reading this book about somebody

who had something like I had
and they were abused as a child.

Do you think that could be me?

Could you help me go and find out?

Um, and my answer is actually no.

I'm not gonna do that.

Now, Steve and I, we both present
ourselves as being solution focused.

It's one of the things I
love about the whole NLP.

Yeah.

The best thing about
the past is it's over.

You don't have to do that anymore.

So I love the fact that, you know,
if there is, if somebody comes

and they have been traumatized.

There are things we could do to
take them back, disassociated, clear

it all up and then move forward.

But the problem is, if you go and
look for something and they don't even

know what it is, you're not gonna know
whether the unconscious thinks, ah,

you, you think that this happened?

I wonder what that would be like.

And then creates a scenario
for you or a memory for you.

And there have actually been instances
of hypnotists taking clients back to an

earlier time, um, and, and they've come
up with stories about they were raped or

they were abused, or this happened or that
happened when in fact nothing happened.

It was a false memory.

So I would never offer
my services to do that.

I would explain that I'm solution
focused if they've got a goal they

want to work on or work towards.

So if they're suffering from
anxiety or depression, I can

help them work towards that goal.

But I'm not gonna go and look for
something that might not be there.

And I'm smiling 'cause I've got a
puppy whip it down here eating my foot.

I'm trying to be all, all author
authoritative, and I've got this weird

puppy down here chewing on my foot.

So I'm sorry guys.

You did really well.

Okay.

You still came across
as professional, Tina.

Don't worry about it.

Um, yeah, I mean, I, I, I'm
totally in agreement with,

with Tina's approach to this.

Um, it's been probably about seven,
eight years since I've really did any

real therapeutic work in any sort of
volume or quantity working with people.

Um, but in what seems like a previous
life now, 10 years ago, there were

many people that used to come in,
who'd been through traumas and the

natural tendencies to look for.

The triggers and the whys and the
reasoning and to make sense of it.

I get that.

But as Tina says, with solution
focus, it's really the question

is, well, what do you want someone
like that's already coming in

with the questions in their mind?

They're presupposing.

There's something there and you
tend to find, and it's a huge, you

know, uh, generalization that people
will find what they go looking

for, and we never really know.

Um, so I wouldn't be taken on a
client that comes in, um, looking for

something like that, you know, looking
for the answers to those questions.

I'd, I'd suggest they go and see
somebody else actually in that instance.

Well, there are, uh, like
psycho therapists Yeah.

Who therapy and there and
there are even, um, regressive.

Clinical hypnotherapist that
will quite happily take you back.

Yeah, I think it's a minefield actually.

And it just, just occurred to me, I
did some work up in North London, um,

oh, this was a long time ago, so it
was probably about 16 years ago, and

it was a mother rang up and wanted
me to work with her son, and I can't

remember why they actually took on
the, the case, but actually went there.

I got, it's a vague distant memory
and it turned out that, um, that in

the news there was a lot, lot of news
about, um, teachers abusing children.

Okay.

So there was a case in North London
and what happened is the school boys

in this particular school all started
talking together and started to get

worried about whether they had the
potential to be abusers as well.

Okay.

And then they made the mistake of
talking to their mothers about this.

So I ended up getting the calls from
the moms to work with the children.

And it was, what was interesting
was how easy it was for everyone

to get caught up in looking for
a problem that wasn't there.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

It's, and, and there are cases where
people have acquired false memories.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, I know of somebody who actually
came to see me years and years ago.

You've just reminded me.

Years and years ago she went
to see this, um, hypnotherapist

about her anxiety issues.

And the hypnotherapist said, people
who have these kind of conditions

have usually been sexually abused.

Um, and but the, at the end of
the session, she came out and

she needed antidepressants.

And when she came to see me, she said,
I just need you to close this door.

'cause it's like a door's been open.

Now I'm looking for stuff and I'm
thinking, well, you know, was it my uncle?

Was it my dad?

Was it my granddad?

Was it, um, and it caused
her all sorts of problems.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The brain then presupposes
something's true.

Yeah.

Um, and actually again, we
keep being reminded of things.

Um, again, it seems like a past life.

Someone I, I knew who I
don't keep contact with.

Once I'd got into coaching and,
and therapy and NLP, they followed

me about a year and a half later.

Um, but they went down a
slightly different route.

It was a very authoritarian
type of hypnosis.

And I actually did some training with
the person that they trained with, so

I know exactly the approach they had.

So it was very authoritative, hypnosis
regress back to the issue and do almost

like, um, a change personal history.

Mm-hmm.

In fact, it wasn't
almost, it was a change.

Personal history.

It presupposes that someone, first of all,
knew what the problem was, it was related

to a person, and that changed personal
history, was the answer to everything.

Yeah.

And I remember having a conversation
with this, it was an old colleague

of mine, and I said, well, what if
there is no past issue with a person

who said, oh, we'll always find one.

And that was the point I decided
I don't, I don't want any more

dealings with this particular person.

Oh no, I don't like that at all.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it is a bit of a minefield.

I personally would keep
clear of something like that.

Um, and, uh, it doesn't mean I
wouldn't work with someone, but

my, my approach to it would be,
what, what do you actually want?

You know, let's look at the folk,
let's look at the solutions.

Let's look at the outcomes
that you're after.

So the next, there's a nice, nice
light one to start the evening off.

It's a nice light one
to start the evening.

Okay, so the next one I've got
here is thinking of gems like

John Val's karmic cleanup.

I love how NLP provides a wealth
of skills and techniques that we

could develop and use creatively.

I'd love to hear your
examples of creative NLP.

Where do you start with that?

I know.

I'm like, oh, I love, I love it.

I do love it.

Um, it's like NLP is creative.

Yeah.

That's the thing I love about NLP.

It's not a thing, there's
not a dogma to it.

Although you would think there
would be sometimes if you Yeah.

You read too much of the
literature that's out there.

Um, there's no limit to the
patterns that we can come up with.

There's no limit to the applications.

Yeah.

You know, we're only
limited by our creativity.

And our creativity knows no limits.

Um, I mean, I love the fact that you
go, and, and I know most of the people

watching us, uh, have had some kind
of NLP training or I'm kind of gonna

make that mind read that assumption.

Um, I love the fact that when you
do your training, you're given all

these different elements and from
what you learn on your practitioner,

you can create whatever's needed.

So the whole basis of having NLP
is all you do is put it together.

You take a little bit from there, a
little bit from there, and you put it

with that bit and that bit over there.

Mm-hmm.

And then you just create something
that matches what your client needs.

Yeah.

It's, it's having a huge toy box
of Lego, um, most of which is, um,

linguistic or submodalities, I think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Me open up a submodality tray, the
submodality, and it's all linked together.

Yeah.

It's one of those boxes that
opens up like this, and you go,

okay, how creative can I be?

I mean, it's one of the things
I loved about the practice

group when we first started it.

Uh, Tina back in 2004 when we
used to meet live on the first

Thursday of the month, that we
would ask people, what do you want?

Okay.

So it wouldn't be, we would then impose
what we wanted to train on the group.

We'd ask the group and um, and
sometimes you didn't get anything back.

Okay.

So you, we'd have to
be creative on the day.

And some of the best, um, practice
group sessions were certainly

best from my perspective.

And the ones I enjoyed were where
we came up with things on the spot.

There was one where I remember
saying to the group, I've never

done this before, but who wants
to play with per personal space?

So per personal space is our
awareness of where we are.

Like, there's my finger, I know there's
my nose, and I have this awareness.

There's like, uh, geometry and geography
that I, I know where I am in space

so I can pick up this drink and.

Don't accidentally tip over my head.

I know where my mouth is.

Yeah.

But I've been reading about
people's ability to literally

touch other people energetically.

Mm.

So we just did some really creative,
getting people standing next to

each other and imagining reaching
out and touching the other person.

And we got some incredible results.

Now, a lot of it was down to the
pre-frame, you know, so it wasn't, uh, the

pre-frame wasn't never done this before.

Guys, no idea how this is gonna work.

The pre-frame was, we're
gonna explore something new.

Let's just see what
amazing results we get.

And we just played and we just
experimented and we just explored

and came up with new ways of,
you know, connecting with people.

And I, I love those sessions.

We're kind of just making things
up and on the spot and finding

out things by experimentation.

I think my favorite of the practice
group was the one where we delved

into all the different elements of,
of deep rapport and synchronization.

Mm-hmm.

Paying attention to, um,
calibrating to what other people

were thinking and feeling.

Mm.

Mind reading to such an extent
that not only could you see

the other person's images.

You could put shit in them.

Yeah.

Well, not necessarily shit, but you could,
you could muck around with other people's.

You could play with other people.

Yeah, indeed.

You could just stick.

And and I remember, I remember we
had, and, and I think it might have

been June, do you remember somebody
put bunnies in June's garden?

Yeah.

She imagined there was a Wendy house
and she can imagine two children.

One in a red dress, one in a yellow dress.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the other person actually
saw the house and the two

children in the same colors.

But you're right.

Yeah, I remember that.

And they, they imposed an
imprint imprinted little

rabbits in the garden as well.

Yeah.

And she saw that.

That's, yeah.

And this is what I love about it.

Um, I, I, I, before we did the
practice group, in fact when

I first got into coaching, um.

It was actually a, a, a
hypnosis diploma I was doing.

And I'd invited a group of
people to my house and we, I

set up our first practice group.

This about 2000.

In fact, it was just before I'd
even started assisting actually.

And didn't know, none of
us knew what we were doing.

Okay.

So it was really the, the blind
leading the blind, literally.

And I was using Allman McGill's
Stage Hypnosis as our book, and

we'd randomly choose a page and
then try some experimentation.

And the thing that really opened up
my mind to what was, what was really

possible just by experimenting, was
when I did, uh, we opened the page and

I said, oh, there's a psychic las suit,
and I've got somebody stand there.

Imagine throwing a las suit.

Pulled them and they fell over.

And I remember thinking,
oh my God, this is so cool.

And it just, it literally blew
away all boundaries in terms of, I.

Being creative and just experimenting.

So I think it's a great question.

Um, I, there is a couple of patterns
actually to, to it, which i, I

use to help in my creativity.

Um, one is one, when I first
heard about mapping across,

yeah, I found that really useful.

So looking for a behavior in one
context and then mapping it across

into, uh, another context and
taking something that works here

that's never been used here before.

I found that a very, uh,
particularly creative pattern

that can come up with lots of new
ideas, new insights, new options.

In fact, last Tuesday I met up
with a, a colleague of mine.

And we were sitting in somebody's house.

This, this guy bought this
house in Notting Hill.

It was a huge house, beautiful house.

And um, he was doing some
consulting for the house owner

who owned, um, an art gallery.

It wasn't an art gallery owned actually.

He just owned lots of art.

And we were just exploring for about
an hour or so, as many different ways

to creatively, uh, leverage the art.

We came up with 35 different ways.

Yeah.

Yes.

So what I was doing there was
looking at, um, ways to sell things

in a different context and match
across to this particular context.

Now we dunno if any of them gonna
work, but we're just experimenting.

Yeah.

So that's a very creative way of looking
at taking something, blending it to

something new, almost doing like a visual
squash and coming up with something

completely new and completely original.

I said I wasn't gonna talk much.

Sorry.

I'm gonna shut off because I, yeah.

I got all excited about creativity.

I know, I know.

And I knew when you said earlier,
oh, I'm not gonna talk much.

I went here.

Um, okay.

So listening to Alessandro and
Tina, I've been thinking more

generically about peak performance.

Whilst it's a fa a phrase, sorry.

Whilst it's a phrase that genuinely used
for sport, my thoughts are that it can

be applied to any positive behavior.

And you are right.

It can, I wonder if you agree.

Yes, I do.

And how you apply the principles
in other aspects of coaching

while everything that Alessandro was
talking about doing with athletes

and in sport, you can just change
the context and you can use it for

any kind of performance, whether
it's to do with being on a stage.

Whether it is public speaking
training, it really doesn't matter

because you just changed the context.

You're waiting for me now?

We can.

I mean, I think, I think
that's fairly atory really.

Um, I, it's, it's interesting.

I think the phrase peak performance,
and again, it's a huge mind read is, um,

it kind of sets an in, um, what's
the phrase I'm looking for?

It can presuppose a bit like
the, the, um, the coaching wheel.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Where people go, well, where are you at?

Yeah.

It's a five or a seven.

Yeah.

What gets missed out with that is
that really at the core of everything,

if we're okay, it doesn't matter if
we're at four or five on something.

Yeah.

So peak performance can sometimes imply
that unless anyone's performing at

this peak level, things aren't okay.

Yeah.

Um, so I, I look at it in
a slightly different way.

I, I, I'm not looking for peak
performance, I wanna avoid mediocrity.

Okay.

I, I, of course you do.

It's, it's Richard's fault
actually, because I remember reading

this summer, I can't remember
when, you know, decades ago.

It is, you know, far too many
people are mediocre, avoid, you

know, be allergic to mediocrity
when I'm gonna avoid mediocrity.

Okay.

But it means that I show up and
I get engaged and I do whatever I

do, um, and I'm fully present and I
enjoy it to the best of my ability.

And that's like a peak experience
in that moment in time.

So for me, that's my
approach to peak performance.

It's having the, the best experience
I can at this moment in time.

Um, not necessarily with an,
with an intention or an outcome.

Not always with an intention or
an outcome other than just to

show up and be really present.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that makes perfect sense, uh,
to me, uh, although there's a part of

me that's, that's my, my, my little, but
my, although there's a part of me mm-hmm.

That always wants to be better next time.

Yeah.

Now, that doesn't mean that I'm aiming
for huge heights, but if I'm delivering

something, if I'm doing something, if
I'm performing, then I always want to

just do a little bit more next time.

I, I totally get that,
and I agree with that.

What I love to do is I
go, yeah, I've shown up.

Have I done, have I been really present?

Have I done the best I can
included in the preparation?

And if I sharp and I do the best
I can, I can relax and actually

enjoy whatever it's I'm doing.

Yeah.

And then I can take the feedback and see,
well, now I've had the experience, is

there a way that I can actually improve
it and make it slightly better, make

it easier, make it even more enjoyable?

And that approach for me takes
all the, any pressure away.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Takes any pressure away.

And it still means I can grow and
I can improve and I can evolve.

Um, but that, that growing and the
evolving and improving doesn't become

the focus, the focus for me then
is the being present and actually

engaging and enjoying something.

Yeah.

For, for that peak experience.

It's one of the things I got from all the,
certainly the, all the early NLP stuff I

used to listen to, you know, it was, um.

Everything was about passion and
enthusiasm and tenacious resolve and just

being really juiced up about whatever
you're doing, and that to me was what

was really appealing about NLP is like
being really juiced up in the moment.

So you have those peak experiences
and that's never changed.

No.

Yeah.

So I, I just avoid going for the,
chasing the next peak, that's all.

Yeah, that makes sense.

This one is actually for you, is it?

Yeah, I'll have, I'll have
nothing to say on this one then.

Huge thanks to Steve for the quantum
questions, having recorded my answers.

I'm a work in progress with
making myself more visible and

valuable to my potential clients.

I'd love to know your thoughts about
these insights and their potential impact,

which insights doesn't say, well,
I'm sorry, how can I answer?

It doesn't.

Sorry about your insights.

Okay.

Thoughts about these insights.

These insights.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Alright.

Um, well done.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad you got some insights
and, and for those of you going, what

the hell are the quantum questions?

They're just simply a series of 10
questions that get you to ask is

chaining questions, so you get a
real insight into, um, what's really

important to a potential client.

By asking these questions, you, you, you
chunk and you chain to the point where

you've got rapport with what they desire.

You overcome all their objections,
and you get to the point where they

go, yes, you really understand me.

Um, so if they've got those
insights, that is fabulous.

And that's all I can
really say about that.

I'd said, no, there wouldn't be
much I could say about this one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, well, yes, but if you've
got more clarity, um, that can,

that can only be good, can't it?

It can, yes.

I concur.

So this one could be just for me,
following the August training by

Tina, I put my focus on addictions and
OCD and the clients came rolling in.

Fabulous.

I've just completed the first session
with a trichotillomania client, and for

those of you who don't know what that
is, it's people that pull their hair out.

Uh, whose dissociated part was very
clear of its purpose, but didn't

have ideas how it could help the
client fulfill its purpose without

urging her to pull her hair.

We called on other parts to help.

So from that, I'm guessing that
you're doing like a six step reframe,

but they're yet to play ball.

Now this, this is interesting when
I read this earlier, um, now Richard

doesn't teach six step reframing anymore.

Mm-hmm.

But it's a very, it's a very useful
exercise to do in certain context.

So I'm assuming that this is a six
step reframe and the other parts,

but they're yet to play ball.

I've never had a part to not play ball
when I've done six step reframing,

and I think that's down to the setup.

Mm.

That's where I was gonna
go with that as well.

It's actually how you set it
up so that they don't actually

have a choice but to play ball.

Um, and it's a matter of negotiating
and if, and if you, they don't

come up with alternative behaviors.

I might even say something along
the lines of, um, are there, do

you agree there are behaviors that
you haven't thought of yet that you

could use in place of this behavior?

And I've never had anybody say no to that.

Um, so that's really my thoughts.

Now you said here to move the
session forward, I got an unconscious

response to stop pulling the hair.

And that the part or parts
would share an idea when ready.

You've got like a, a, a, like
a, a naughty child in there.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and only pursue it
if it was good for her.

Huh.

And again, I would say
that was in the setup.

I'd love to know further ideas of how to
deal with such a challenge in the moment.

Well, if, if the first session, if
I did do something like six step

reframing and it didn't work at

the next session, I
would do something else.

And that's because in the back of
my head, I've got Richard's voice

telling me, do something else.

Because if you've gone through that
process once and it hasn't worked.

That person may then be
thinking, well, that didn't work.

So then you need to go in your toolbox
and think about, so what else can we do?

You could even, um, you can even
do a compulsion blowout on that.

Actually.

There are other things you could use.

You could create a propulsion system
that propels her away from hair

pulling and towards having a lovely,
wonderful, luscious head of hair.

Um, there's all sorts of things,
but again, it would depend

on the person in front of me.

Yeah, there's a, there's
a lot there, isn't there?

There is a lot.

I think it's one of those things, I mean,
one of the things that I'm aware when we

do these, our sessions is we can't give
prescriptive solutions to individual

sessions because you have to work with
the person that's in front of you.

Mm.

And all we can do is maybe just share
some of the past experiences we've had.

Um, some things that have worked,
but I completely agree with

what you said, said there, Tina,
that I've never had resistance.

Um, however, there there's a phrase I
can't remember who came out of, it's like

doing the work before you do the work.

Hmm.

You know, start to think about doing
conversationally, doing the work

before you actually do any work.

And that's very easy by telling
stories, telling metaphors,

you know, um, pulling hair.

It's one of those things that becomes an
unconscious process and there's always

something, there's a benefit from it.

It could be like biting nails, isn't it?

You know, people get to relieve
their, uh, their jaw tension by

gnashing away at their nails.

Yeah.

I, I love And then, sorry, the
stories, remember Richard used to

tell those stories about that guy
that was biting nails in the room.

Um, uh, and, and he was sitting
in the front and he didn't even

want to stop biting his nails.

He's just sitting right in the
front of Richard, biting his nails.

Mm-hmm.

And he said, don't do that.

You have no idea what's in your nails.

He said, you the people go to the toilet.

They don't wash their hands.

A handrail, they scratch by the
handrail and the doorknob and, and

Richard's building a propulsion
mechanism to basically go stop that.

Yeah, and do something else.

So what I would do in situations like
that, not every time, because everyone's

different, what I've done many times is
to build that propulsion mechanism as

part of the pre-frame, talking about, oh
yeah, 'cause we've gotta teach the system.

Your system can learn to stop doing
something which is learned to do very

automatically, and instead learn to do
something else that's even better for you.

Now, I dunno what that's gonna be yet.

So you have this, you know, I think you're
just having a conversation, a chat, the

very beginning, but you actually talking
to the unconscious and setting, not the

propulsion mechanism going, stop that,
you know, as the hand comes up, stop it.

No, no, no, no.

Ah.

And just relax.

And then you can grow this luscious hair.

Yeah.

So it's like move away from something.

Move towards, yeah.

And then you can do the work.

But I think certainly with the six
step pre, pre reframe preframe, um.

It does come down to how you do the
pre-frame of the six step reframe.

It is, yeah.

But everything's in the setup, isn't it?

Mm, totally.

Yeah.

You know, it's all about when you have
that first conversation with them,

the first time they ring you and talk
to you or email you, it's how you set

everything up from the very beginning.

Yeah.

I don't know how quickly the
habit's gonna change for you.

You know, presupposes
many things, doesn't it?

Yeah.

And even if there was something
like that where you're getting maybe

a digital, no, some resistance.

Um, another way of looking at
it is what about just reducing

and reducing and reducing.

So if you do come up against
something where it's like a,

and it shouldn't be a digital.

Yes.

No.

'cause you inoculate against
that by your set in your setup.

The question is, I dunno how, how much
you can reduce the amount of pull in.

Maybe 50%.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well if you can do 50%,
you can do 70%, can't you?

And so, you know, and again, it
would be be in your tonality as well.

So instead of asking a question,
you, you turn it into a command.

So you're not even asking if it's 50%.

Well, if you've done 50%, you
can agree to 70 now, can't you?

So I'm not, not doing
great with my tonality.

That might be getting the idea.

And, and the other thing that's kind of
in my head talking about that, I mean, a

lot of people when they, when they pull
hair, when they, they self-harm 'cause

the hair pulling comes under self-harming.

They do it 'cause they
get something out of it.

So if, if the six step reframing
isn't working, you need to deal with.

What they're covering up
the And the ecology of it.

Yeah.

The, well, yeah.

What, what is it doing for them?

So there's obviously
something that's been missed.

Uh, I worked with a girl, I mean,
she, she was literally bald up here.

She pulled so much hair out, um, and
she was so stressed because of the, the

stuff that was going on in her life.

And every time she ripped the hair
out of her head, it was a release.

So she was, it's like she
was releasing pressure.

So maybe you need to take a step
back and deal with whatever that is.

Yeah.

And people get endorphin rushes,
not just with putting hair

biting, skin even cutting.

There's like a little chemical
rush that makes them at some

chemical level feel good.

Yeah.

So the mechanism is already there.

The propulsion mechanism.

Propulsion mechanism is always there.

To get 'em to feel good.

We just gotta find a way for
them to feel good in a way that

they don't just feel good, but is
actually good for them as well.

Yeah.

And, and it's something else
actually just occurred to me.

Don't talk to them.

Talk, talk to talk to the unconscious.

Yeah.

Again, them out of the way.

Yeah.

And just let, look,
look, they're gone now.

Okay.

We know you've learned this
behavior and it serves a purpose

and, and you know how to change it.

'cause there was a time you probably
didn't do it, it wasn't there and

there's many times you don't do it.

So I want you to change
it, reduce it down.

And, you know, there's, I
had a client came in and she,

um, it wasn't pulling hair.

Um, she had alopecia so her
hair was falling out the back.

So she came in with this red hairband and,
and it, and it was all stress related.

Totally stress related.

Um.

So I just got her to relax and chill
out more and leave her husband.

No, I didn't get to leave her husband.

She eventually left her husband.

Yeah, she had, that wasn't down to me.

I just said, relax, you know,
and she went, it's his fault.

I don't need him anymore.

So she, you know, she,
she reframed a marriage.

Um, but she came in for a couple
of sessions and this is a good

thing actually, 'cause the person
said they're working with OCD

and addictive people, so, great.

You've got a long-term program
now, haven't you, for these people.

'cause they're very compulsive.

Um, so she came in for a, a couple
of the follow-up sessions, um,

because she's now really curious.

She goes, look, my hair's
starting to grow back.

I said, well, it's 'cause
you're relaxed now.

You know?

And your body's yeah.

Not burning off all that
energy and you can put energy

back into growing the system.

She goes, um, we come, go
back to the creativity one.

She goes.

Can we do anything
about it to speed it up?

And I went, I don't
know, but let's find out.

Let's slow down.

Close your eyes and
did a six step reframe.

Did some imls.

You know how to grow hair, don't you?

And go.

Yes.

Um, and I, I assume you know
how to speed it up, don't you?

Yes.

Okay.

Would you accelerate the groan of the hair
on the back and, I mean, no, not the back.

Because I would have a back
on the back of her head.

Yes.

Yeah.

And then I got a little bit
creative and I remember saying,

'cause the bit at the tops growing
quicker than the bit at the bottom.

'cause it's all downy.

So you can get the bit at the pop top to
teach the bit at the bottom how to do it.

A month later she came in and she
had like a stripe where this part

was growing quicker than this part.

And I just remember again, one of those
epiphany moments thinking she didn't

know how to do that, but she did.

Yes she did.

Don't talk to the conscious minds,
have the conversation with the

unconscious and let it work things out.

And I think that works for the next one
as well actually, because this is from,

uh, Marco in, in Rome, and he says it's
exactly a week today since he had an

operation to have his retinas reattached.

And he is on the mood.

He's on the, he's on the men.

So fabulous.

Yeah.

Well done.

Pleased to hear that.

Fabulous.

Um, so he says he saved
the eyes of a hypnotist.

So of course the naughtiness in me
what's know which hypnotist specifically.

So now he says he thanks
us and he thanks us.

Welcome.

He thanks us because while he was
being operated on, he could hear

our voices resound with a reassuring
tone and just looking after him.

Okay.

Well, I'm glad we were there to help.

So he thanks us.

Uh, the question he has is how
he can speed up his recovery.

So I think we've just gone
through that with the head.

Well, I, I, the thing is,
I don't dunno about you.

Um, I don't know how to get my
cells if I cut myself to heal.

Um, but I must do at some level.

Well, yeah, I mean we do know.

We all know how to heal
'cause it can heal.

So just ask your unconscious
or even instruct it.

That's why I go with something like that.

Well, you know, is the unconscious
willing to speed it up?

And it might go, it might even go no,
because this is gonna take a little

bit of time and, and probably not.

I mean, how many.

I think is it seven days for all the
cells in the eyeball to be replaced?

So they're already replaced
because it's been seven days

since he had his operation.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, um, he can't be that far off,
uh, every single cell being replaced.

Hmm.

So, I don't know.

I, I would just simply ask my
unconscious and even instruct it.

So Marco, when you do your self
hypnosis, I want you to hear us

instructing your unconscious to ensure
that you heal quickly, appropriately.

So the next time we do see
you, you have amazing vision.

I was gonna join in then I.

Yeah, but I was just doing a bit
of self-healing on myself anyway.

Bit on myself.

It needs to deal also.

Yeah.

In fact, there's something else.

Um, I did a Facebook post with somebody
just the other day actually, who is

in hospital and it sounds like they're
going through a bit of an operation.

He has spinal pins and and whatnot.

No, I saw that too.

Yeah.

Yeah, I saw that too.

And I wish it, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I didn't wanna mention his
name, but you, you have, sorry.

Um, and he'd mentioned and I said,
look, I wish you a speedy recovery.

'cause I know he used to turn up on some
of our early prac practice group sessions.

Yeah, yeah.

So I know he is a, an
accomplished practitioner, maybe

even a master practitioner.

And I just kind of commented and
said, look, you know how to heal.

But it was interesting.

The, the reply was, but the thing
is the, the, the pins and the bolts

mean there is going to be some pain.

I thought, no, no, no.

Do not buy into the presupposition.

No.

That at the moment, that's
what you've been told.

And that might be what
you're experiencing.

It does not mean it can't be
turned down and even switched off.

And quite often if people
struggle to turn it off, it's

because the system's going well.

If you turn it off, you're gonna
muck around and cause more problems.

You go, no, my deal is turn
it off and I will be cautious

and, and ACT's appropriately.

Um, but it was interesting he
said, uh, if only I could have

Milton, Richard, and you there.

Steve and I went back and said, well,
you have, you know, you know who we

are, hear our voices talking to you.

And he said, oh, and the other thing
was, um, and, and I can always.

They gimme the drugs.

I said, well take the drugs and then
just make sure that once you've got

the experience of the drugs, you, you
know, revivification of that experience.

Anchor, anchor, anchor anchoring.

Yeah.

And it's the thing actually, and
in response to Marco's question,

a lot of people that have done NLP
practitioners and master practitioners,

they've already got the solutions
they do to a lot of the questions

they ask and the challenges they face.

And they're not always really apr.

Now I know, I know that's
not the case with Marco.

I mean, I'm sure he is been
doing his self-healing.

Yeah, but you've gotta
experiment on yourself.

You've gotta go there first with

these things.

Definitely you, you, I mean, your
little toolbox that you get at

the end of your practitioner, your
master practitioner, that's not just

to be used on other people, guys,
that's for you to use on yourself.

Well, I think actually in the
practitioner, it really is go first

practitioner practice on yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the, to me, that's the difference.

That makes the difference.

When I see somebody that's
been really doing the work, you

know, they, they know a SW pan.

They know 10 sw pans.

'cause they've been
playing and experimenting.

They've done four different visual
squashes linked in with logical levels.

Yeah.

'cause they're playing and
they're being creative and

they've done it on themselves.

You can see when someone's been
doing the work and going there.

Yeah.

So, Marco, you're gonna heal
any question to ask yourself.

It's just how quickly.

Yeah.

And, and we'll be there while you sleep.

And while you dream and
while you dream and while you

sleep, you'll hear our voice.

You'll be able to see a brighter future.

And that sounds quite
cornea at the moment.

It's a bit corny.

Yes.

But we'll, we'll let you,
we'll let let that one go.

Yeah.

Okay.

So don't, don't iris to that one.

I, I'm trying to come up with
some of the moment, but yeah.

Okay.

Moving.

That's a good pupil anyway, isn't he?

Yeah, he's, he's a fabulous pupil.

Yeah.

Yes.

Moving swiftly on.

Why?

Sorry, I didn't mean to dilate.

Let's get that contract.

Yeah.

Okay.

Lemme know when you No.

Started to now.

Oh dear.

Why is it a problem for other people?

Look, 'cause it always is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you know it's a
problem for other people?

Yeah.

When you make decisions and change them
as you take a different direction, so, so.

What?

Yes.

Yes.

That's my metamodel question.

What?

Yes.

Yeah.

What do you mean?

So, so I'm looking at this question
and, and I'm thinking, well, when

you make decisions and change
them, does that mean you are making

decisions and changing your decisions?

Or is it a problem for the other people?

'cause you're making a decision and
you are changing the other people.

So I don't really know.

It's very ambiguous.

Where, where's the referential index?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's very ambiguous.

So what kind of ambiguity is that, guys?

It's, it's very ambiguous.

So, so shall we hallucinate,
shall we mind read?

We, we, we can hallucinate
both of, of them.

We'll hallucinate.

Yeah.

So, uh, so why is it a problem for other
people when you make a decision and change

them as you take a different direction?

So if I hallucinate, you mean you
make a decision and then you decide

to change that decision and take
a completely different direction.

Why is it a problem for the other person?

Well, I mean, that would depend on your
relationship with the other person.

You know, is it your boss telling
you they want this done and you

decide to do something else?

Is it your significant other?

Where you've made an agreement that
you're both gonna do one thing or you

are gonna do this and you change it.

There's not enough information.

And this is why we can't advise
people on what to do with clients.

I mean, we can't even really
answer the question because

there's not enough information.

I I, I will add something to that
though, even though it might be

answering a question that wasn't asked.

If someone keeps changing their mind,
it doesn't in, in invoke really much

faith in somebody's, um, in trust.

You, you kind of break in
rapport with someone, aren't you?

You are.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

If you keep constantly changing
your mind, then people really dunno.

They can't.

You can't really trust where you're at.

And trust is an integral
part of rapport, isn't it?

It's trust and harmony in a relationship.

So you, if you are constantly changing
your mind and people dunno where you're

at, you're breaking rapport with them.

That would cause potential
problems in, in relationships.

If the other option, well, the other
options is you are changing their minds.

Mm.

Well, the thing is permission.

Did they ask you to?

Yeah.

That's another, that's
another issue, isn't it?

Yeah.

Do you have permission to, yeah.

So yeah, there isn't very, very
much we can do with that one.

Is there?

No, no, now, now this is a great one.

I like this one.

This is, uh, yeah.

Great one for discussion.

Why is NLP interpreted differently
by different coaches, practitioners,

authors, researchers, dot, dot, dot, dot.

Say that again.

Why is NLP interpreted differently
by different coaches, practitioners,

authors, researchers, and then
there's dot, dot, dot, dot, dot.

Because

well, okay.

All right.

Again.

Well, what is N-L-P-N-L-P isn't a thing.

NLP is,

it's just curiosity of
objective experience.

Yeah.

It's a study of, you know, human
behavior and, and, uh, where do

you, where do you end with that?

Where'd you start,
where'd you go with that?

It's, it's beliefs, it's
values, it's identities.

And there's so many
different ways to look at.

It's, there's all those,
there's all those deletions,

distortions and generalizations.

And somebody, somebody
was on, uh, social media.

Um, saying NLP means, um, and
then says, so, so the reason NLP

is called NLP is because mm-hmm.

And they did this whole posting
on why NLP was called NLP and

their answers were quite good.

They were eloquent, it made sense.

He was talking about what the neuro
means, what the programming means,

what the linguistic bit means.

And all I could hear in my head
was Richard Bandler saying why he

called it NLP, which of course,
well, we know the story wasn't

what he posted on social media.

Yeah.

Um, and, and, and I just think
that different people, they

have their own interpretation.

I mean, the way that I interpret the
way things work will be different to

the way Steve interprets the way they
work, because we have different filters.

We put things together differently.

I mean, over the 20 years or whatever
that we've known each other, we

can read each other quite well.

Mm-hmm.

Are we having months agreed.

Have we?

No, we haven't.

No, no.

We disagree quite a lot actually.

But that's healthy, you know, we have
very healthy discussions where one of,

we got very different maps, haven't we?

Yeah.

And, and sometimes one person's map is,
is more efficient and more effective

than the other person's or more fun.

Yeah.

You know, I, I think we come, you know,
that question is, uh, NLP is just,

it's not a thing, it's just curiosity.

So we're all gonna have to see
things in completely different ways.

And that's the thing I love about
it, that you never stop learning.

You never stop discovering, you never
stop finding things and finding things.

You can then apply to yourself
and then share with other people.

And that's why, you know, that's why
there are so many books, I think.

It would be a little bit more interesting
if many of the books out there weren't

just a rehash of the practitioner manual.

No, I agree.

I agree.

If yeah, we need something new and
innovative to come out of this.

Yeah, because they're all the same.

Okay.

I have a thought.

They're all the same.

Yeah, because they're, if you look
at them, they're all the same.

Um, and we do need something new.

Um, so here we have the
penultimate question.

What is the difference between
NLP practitioner and NLP coach?

Well, I think we kind of started
to answer that, didn't we?

A moment ago when we were talking about,
for me, for me the distinction is the

practitioner is someone who's learned
the fundamentals of of NLP and is prac

putting the, the fundamentals together.

Mainly, primarily working on themselves
or working with a willing partner,

but not necessarily working on people.

You know, just really starting to discover
and move things from conscious competence

to a degree of unconscious competence.

That tends to happen more when someone's
done two, three, maybe four practitioners.

Yeah, I see that.

And then when they start to move to
the master practitioner, then they

become even more creative with that.

The NLP coach.

Well, my approach to that is that's
when you get, you've done enough

of your practitioner, you then get
a chance to work on other people.

Yeah, yeah.

Or work with other people
rather than on other people.

And of course there are, there are
different certifications that are offered

out there in the marketplace, and some
people are offering an NLP practitioner

and some people are offering an NLP coach.

Now Steve and I are both with,
uh, Richard Bandler's Society.

So we are with the society of NLP
and within the society of NLP,

there's a licensed practitioner
of NLP where you get that initial

toolbox of magical things that enable
you to create infinite changes.

Uh, you can use it for business
code, you can use it anywhere.

It's just so flexible.

And there will be many people that will
attend the practitioner who know nothing.

And at the end of it, they get
their practitioner toolbox.

I've got my practitioner toolbox, I can
pull the rabbit out and, and do magic.

And then from there, there
will be people that want to use

NLP within a coaching context.

And then they will go and they will do
the NLP Coach certification, which will

teach them how to apply their NLP toolbox.

A coaching environment, just like you
can come and do a practitioner of NLP,

and then from there you can go and learn
how to apply that in a business context.

That was how I read the question.

Very boring, sorry.

Yeah.

Well, we both agree.

Yes, we both agree.

That's our distinctions.

Yes.

Our maps are very similar in that respect.

Yeah.

So the last question, and
again, this question has me

going, but what do you mean?

So this question says, where did
the NLP presuppositions come from?

Now when I read that bit, I'm
thinking, well, what do you mean?

Do you mean the linguistic presuppositions
within the metamodel, or do you

mean the basic presuppositions?

And then it goes on to say, why
are they not adjusted or changed?

It seems to me they are
never challenged though.

They're generalizations and incoherencies.

So I said, I dunno what
presuppositions you mean specifically.

Now if you mean the basic presuppositions,
I mean they come from different fields.

They come from semantics,
which is Alfred Ksky.

K, yeah, KSKY.

Thank you.

I can never ever pronounce his name.

I'm very sorry.

Uh, they're from Transformation
of Grammar, which is Noam Chomsky.

They're from Systems Theory, which
is Gregory Baton from Cybernetics,

which is Ross Ashby, uh, pragmatism.

What a lovely word,
which is William James.

Uh, phenomenology.

I love that word too.

Which is Edmund Hersel, I think.

Herschel.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And logical.

Positiv.

Positiv.

T

No, it's Pos Uh.

Yeah, that'll go.

Positivism.

Yeah.

Positivism.

That's it.

Yes.

Bertram Russell.

Bertram Russell and Alfred.

North Whitehead.

So the basic presuppositions
come from these guys,

or do you mean the other presuppositions?

Because there are many of them as well.

And generally speaking
we do challenge them.

We use the Metamodel challenge to
get more information 'cause we get

the surface structure and we want to
go down to what they actually mean.

So I don't really know.

What prepositions you're talking about.

Now, I know he has something
to say about this too.

There's a, I've got a story.

There's always a story.

Yeah.

Moses meets God and God goes,
right, I've got my 15 guidelines.

No, actually people
won't follow guidelines.

15 rules.

Now they're not gonna
follow 15 commandments.

Okay, let me tell you my 15
commandments for the people.

So explain the 15 commandments to Moses.

He said to Moses, go back and tell
the people about my 15 commandments.

Are you sure you're
gonna remember all those?

Now, this was in the time before Miller
Ghislaine and, and Prime had done the work

on Magic number seven plus or minus two.

So that didn't exist at that point.

So Moses goes off, couple days
later, he comes back and goes, really

sorry, but I couldn't remember them.

That's too many.

God goes, okay, I'll tell you what.

Oh, I'll cut the number down to 12.

I'll write them on stone for you.

Okay.

Make it easy for you to remember.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna carve them on stone.

Okay.

Now let me help you.

There you go.

Have you got all those?

Yeah.

Yeah, I've got all the
Right, my 12 commandments.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now are you sure you can carry all of
them in one go and Moses trots often?

That's how we end up
with the 10 Commandments.

Okay.

The basic presuppositions are kind
of like the 10 Commandments or the 12

Commandments, or the 15 commandments.

Depends where you look.

The numbers vary.

Hmm.

Because they're not real.

They're not real in stone.

They are presuppositions.

There's something that is before
that supports something after.

You know it's pre-up support, positioning,
and the basic presuppositions.

Support us in being able to

do NLP to work with people
to find out and be creative.

Are they fixed?

I don't think so.

No, because there's 12, there's 10.

I'm not even sure what's in the manual.

I can't remember.

Um, I think we should be able to add our
own presuppositions, just like we add

our own rules if they're really useful.

You know, I, I think one would be to
make sure that everything we do is fun

and engaging as a basic presupposition,
possibly, you know, something like that.

Um, so I don't think they're fixed.

Um, I'm not sure about
the incongruency of them.

Is that the phrase that, is that
the word that was used at the end?

He said they're never challenged though.

They're generalizations and Incoherencies.

Incoherencies.

I'm not sure about that.

I'm not quite sure.

'cause I don't know whether this is
actually from a native English speaker.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

So I'm not sure, but I would
say they, they can be challenged

because they're not within in stone.

Yeah.

Seems to me They're just useful.

And that's what I, I've always looked at
'em and go, these are useful things for

us to, um, assumptions for us to make, to
enable us to navigate through the world.

Yeah.

And, and I haven't found any cases
and I've, I've looked a little bit,

I must have been, I've given it some
thought, but I've not spent hours

on it where they don't seem to have
some relevance and be coherent.

I think, I think there is relevance.

I mean, when you look at them, the
one that most people talk about

is the map is not the territory.

I think that's incredibly relevant.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I What say it'd be interesting just to
go through, just to an exercise, things

are how we think, not how they are.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's, I mean, there's so
many elements of those pre basic

presuppositions that are relevant in what
people do and how they perceive their

world, and I think they're really useful.

And I also, um, it seems to me that
it's a very useful thing to really sit

and reflect and find uses for them.

Um, and, uh, consider how you would use
them because, um, they are the foundations

for all the work that I do with people.

For sure.

Yeah.

You do.

Yeah.

I, I recognize the value of the
basic presuppositions early on.

Hmm.

I, I think so.

I'm, I'm aware of time.

Yes, me too.

I'm aware of time.

'cause we're out of time now.

Um, yeah.

So, so think about those basic
presuppositions, if that's what the

question was about, and, and how are
they relevant in the things that you do?

And begin to explore their
relevance and be creative.

See if you can come up with something
else, which is even more useful.

That's the thing about
NLP, it's not fixed, is it?

Yeah.

No, it's not fixed.

It's always changing, growing, evolving.

Mm.

Uh, it's one of the things that I love.

I'm so excited that Biden's gonna let us
into the us Well, he is at the moment from

November, and, uh, I'm getting ready to
go out there in March to meet up with,

uh, with Richard and Kathleen and John.

And every time I meet up with
them, there's another element that

appears there's something else
that's going on that's happening.

Uh, and it's never, it's
always new and there's always

something different to learn.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then that's why we got the, the
masterclass is why we've got the

Secret Agents Change Membership group.

You know, we're not just
sharing what we know.

We want to spark off your creativity
and find out what you've done

and what you've come up with.

And yeah, it's a collaboration.

K Keep playing guys.

Keep playing.

Keep in touch.

Um, and, um, oh, we are
gonna scoot off now.

So, um, we wanna notte
to our friends in Italy.

And, um, ciao.

Live long and prosper.

Yeah.

Thanks for being line guys and um,
we'll see some of you that are coming

onto the practitioner next month.

Next month.

We'll, yeah, we've got some
new stuff lined up for that.

Just a few weeks.

Yeah, it's not long.

Yeah.

Two weeks away.

So looking forward, so we've got
some, again, part of the evolution.

We got a few new things to share
and experiment and play with.

Mm-hmm.

So that's gonna be real fun.

Yes.

I'm looking forward to that too.

Yeah, right.

I'm now gonna go and do some healing.

Go and you do some healing.

Marco can do some healing
and I will send some healing.

Alright, thank you now everybody.

Bye.

Bye-Bye.